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Talk about a squabble in a dustbin !

I have disliked the like or not like buttons since they were allowed to be used. It smacked of allowing people to express views often too broadly drawn, without even the effort to write an explanatory line.
However now intimating that allowing these same like/ dislike Anonymous views be identified, is surely against our democratic Systems of NOT applying laws or rules retrospectively ? It’s not a question of whether we agree or disagree with what’s given likes or dislikes, but it is a question of whether for example any individuals expression of view or even our votes in elections are or can be held against us.
That’s not what our country or club has been known for and I am surprised with a few people who I held in higher regard Agreeing that past likes/dislikes should be identified to posters.

If the rules of posting were changed to deny anonymity from a future date I would be very much in favour of that. That should have always been the case.

Mick Richards

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16 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Talk about a squabble in a dustbin !

I have disliked the like or not like buttons since they were allowed to be used. It smacked of allowing people to express views often too broadly drawn, without even the effort to write an explanatory line.
However now intimating that allowing these same like/ dislike Anonymous views be identified, is surely against our democratic Systems of NOT applying laws or rules retrospectively ? It’s not a question of whether we agree or disagree with what’s given likes or dislikes, but it is a question of whether for example any individuals expression of view or even our votes in elections are or can be held against us.
That’s not what our country or club has been known for and I am surprised with a few people who I held in higher regard Agreeing that past likes/dislikes should be identified to posters.

If the rules of posting were changed to deny anonymity from a future date I would be very much in favour of that. That should have always been the case.

Mick Richards

"Squabble in a dustbin !"

Very funny, I like that. But I have avoided using the thumb thingy as that seems somewhat contentious.

Being relatively new to this forum I have noticed there are rather a lot of squabbles in dustbins. Which seems a little bit odd to me. But perhaps that is down to my lack of knowledge regarding TR Register "Forum Etiquette". I can't quite work out if you are great mates and just having a laugh or actually really do hate each other.

Never mind, I will work it out eventually.

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11 minutes ago, Richard Green 54 said:

"Squabble in a dustbin !"

Very funny, I like that. But I have avoided using the thumb thingy as that seems somewhat contentious.

Being relatively new to this forum I have noticed there are rather a lot of squabbles in dustbins. Which seems a little bit odd to me. But perhaps that is down to my lack of knowledge regarding TR Register "Forum Etiquette". I can't quite work out if you are great mates and just having a laugh or actually really do hate each other.

Never mind, I will work it out eventually.

Richard,

I always thought you were a sensible individual since I watched you teasing the Sheriff of Nottingham in Sherwood.

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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9 hours ago, John Morrison said:

I don't think thats a bad starting point for a debate.

I agree, I think that is a crucial point, over and above the right to anonymity. What about the right to politeness?

One thing is having all the freedom you like, quite another, facing a growing trend of anonymous individuals using it to spite others.

I flout the system in protest, scattering hearts where I see minuses and zeros, and low numbers, up to say, 50.

If you disagree say so. I say what I think and am prepared to take ownership over my statements; anonymity protects from taking responsability.

It is a Forum equivalent of cancel culture, in my view. And I think it doesn't encourage mutual respect and openness, transparency.

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6 hours ago, Derek Hurford said:

Brian I totally agree, I do not have a problem with Tim removing the posts once Cameron removed his, as you said they were then out of context. Perhaps 4 others did. What concerns me is why Cameron felt the need to remove his original post. 

The post then changed to whether moderator should get likes or dislikes?  Following Johns (Wjgco) question, who quite rightly are members and as such have a right to an opinion, but surely if they offer a personal opinion why shouldn’t they get likes or dislikes. But they are moderators and have control over what others can say in writing, should they be concerned whether their liked or disliked and will that effect their ability to do what’s required. Personally I think they can and should be accountable. Even by those wishing to express their point anonymously. I’ll be shocked if by far and away it wasn’t a positive thumbs up.  I am also surprised Wjgco has not been more involved Having asked the question, I always enjoy his input into many threads. 

We are now on whether anyone should have likes or dislikes,  even if those posting anonymously should be exposed, Stillp feels its unfair to the poster, surely if you are writing something you feel is fair and having reread it you are happy with what you have put in print, why worry.  The times I read on a forum, if you don’t like what you read don’t go on a forum. If you are unhappy with what you have written don’t write it or amend it if that’s what’s needed, I’d say. But those that were given the opportunity to put a anonymous like or dislike in the past should not be exposed.as Brian and Tim have said. 

Ps I note since starting writing this post John Wjgco has posted I am also surprised that Suzanne is a +1 as she has expressed her concerns and upset at receiving them. I ask this,  my name is clear  that’s not the case for all perhaps anonymous is fine on occasion and While I absolutely agree (We are all here for the technical info, the camaraderie and the fun). I am really aware sometimes that’s forgotten. 

 

Regarding involvement Derek, you are right, I did take a small step back here, because;

I don't feel as strongly about likes and dislikes as I have (and do), for some other, more recent events.

Having said 'I'll ask', I did just that and then reported back in open forum. 

As the newest Moderator, I am still feeling my way and do not want to write anything that could be seen to be detrimental to the forum or another forum user.

Having said that, I want to be clear, personnally;

I have no objection to negative 'reactions' being used in response to my posts.  They are indicitive of an opinion, that is all.

I have no objection to my name being attached to any use,  I make, of 'reactions'.

My only reservation, regarding the use of these short hand replies, is that they can be difficult to respond to, as they offer only a direction of thought, rather than a reasoned counter arguement.  As such, they do not contribute to the conversation

 

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3 hours ago, Richard Green 54 said:

"Squabble in a dustbin !"

Very funny, I like that. But I have avoided using the thumb thingy as that seems somewhat contentious.

Being relatively new to this forum I have noticed there are rather a lot of squabbles in dustbins. Which seems a little bit odd to me. But perhaps that is down to my lack of knowledge regarding TR Register "Forum Etiquette". I can't quite work out if you are great mates and just having a laugh or actually really do hate each other.

Never mind, I will work it out eventually.

 

Richard

If you find the squabbling here, odd, you should look at a couple of the MB fora.

They take no prisoners, there seems to be no mods, just one 'administrator' and this admin man seems to me, to pick up on the very innocuous comments of some, whilst leaving some of the longer serving forum users to lash the bejesus out of whoever they decide to.

 

The TRR is a soft play area by comparison.

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14 hours ago, Richard Green 54 said:

"Squabble in a dustbin !"

Very funny, I like that. But I have avoided using the thumb thingy as that seems somewhat contentious.

Being relatively new to this forum I have noticed there are rather a lot of squabbles in dustbins. Which seems a little bit odd to me. But perhaps that is down to my lack of knowledge regarding TR Register "Forum Etiquette". I can't quite work out if you are great mates and just having a laugh or actually really do hate each other.

Never mind, I will work it out eventually.

Hi Richard,

there is no hate involved - honest. 

Differences of opinion are the norm for many topics. The 'technical' forums tend to have very little 'ifs & buts'.

But on the 'social' scene if you were to suggest that circles were better than squares you would be shot down pretty quickly but also have a great fan base.  They like their own opinion.

 

As for thumbs up - I know where I would like to stick mine.

 

Roger

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Re likes and dislikes. 

I tend to share the view that people who have views should take the trouble to post, even if it's a minimalist +1 post supporting a previous post.

If your view hasn't been expressed in previous posts, then if it is spelt out, even just briefly, forum members can understand your position even if they do not agree.

 

 

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22 hours ago, ntc said:

It is a guarantee those will give you a red card just because they can even though you are giving technical help, call it what you will a simple thanks would do, that is why some stop helping.   

I'm not interested thumbs up or down (or sideways for that matter), although I do occasionally give a thumbs up and never use down. I would get rid of them altogether as they are divisive. Anyway, I digress from the point I wanted to make - when I first read the title of this thread I thought 'oh good, an opportunity to get some clarity on forum etiquette'. But no, most of these posts go on and on about thumbs up and down.

There is a lot of truth in what Neils says above. Personally, I got fed up with offering advice to TRR members and non-membres and not even getting an acknowledgement. I'm particularly fed up with those non-members who just join the forum, ask technical questions, get what they want and then disappear into the ether never to return. It's just plain rude and discourteous. Like Neil says, many have stopped sharing their knowledge much of which is invaluable and has been gained over many many years of TR ownership and experience. I had stopped sharing knowledge for a while until recently and thought I'd give it another go. But having recently shared a tip, the OP (a TRR member as it happens) hasn't even had the courtesy to acknowledge the advice he's received from me and those who offered advice after, despite him having visited the forum several times since. 

I would like to continue to share and contribute to this forum, but I do keep a mental note of forum members who I will no longer offer any advice or respond to and it has sadly grown by one.

Thumb down me if you wish, but I would sooner someone had the moral fibre to express their views. 

Cheers, Andrew

 

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4 hours ago, Andrew Smith said:

Thumb down me if you wish, but I would sooner someone had the moral fibre to express their views. Cheers, Andrew

I totally agree with you, Andrew. It is very generous of you to share.

Politeness and its opposite, here and "outside", I don't condone rudeness. But I feel, above all, grateful, for all the things I learn from my betters, no irony whatsoever intended. Yes, common courtesy to say "thanks for that". Not even etiquette  just plain decency.

You put it very well about the likes and dislikes. I think that, for example, Quora site, a huge forum, restricts responses to up artows and down without adding the paraphernalia of zeros and minuses and red boxes, which are offputting.

As for anonymity, I recall, from just the other day, all the negative backlash to an innocent collection of signatures to protecting the glorious Brighton Run..

Unreasonable. That was an instance where anonymity allows one not to exchange views, but impose them.

I don't agree. And I don't even have to argue my point. That is a surefast way to impose one's freedom on others, and enjoying that freedom, at others' expense.

Edited by DavidBee
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David,

It seems there are few of us with the same opinion on courteous behaviour. I hope this conversation gets some 'TRaction' (no pun intended) and the message gets across as I feel the silent majority will, if they haven't done so already, simply stop sharing their knowledge and that would be a loss.

Cheers, Andrew

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Andrew and David 

I have to agree with you both. Our forum is a wealth of advice and knowledge and at times a place for fun and silliness, all to the good but there is a tendency for the old fashioned politeness to be abandoned at times.

The use of please and thank you seem to be disappearing in general and not just on here, any form of acknowledgement is good be it a straight forward thank you or a more jokey response to someone you know.  As for the one stoppers who pop in with a problem and then disappear , closing ranks is not what this forum and TRR in general is about , spread the word far and wide and hopefully some of the non members will "come on in". Having said that a simple thanks costs nothing whoever you are.

Have fun enjoy our space but be nice to one another.

Brian

 

 

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I’d like to clear up a couple of things. Over the years I’ve been heavily involved with the clubs combined insurance and the TRR own specific classic car policy designed for our members. I have helped members stuck abroad, with claims and in many other areas, including obtaining improvements. In the earlier years I received much criticism in posts, PM’s even phone calls. Yes there were areas that the Insurers were not willing to look at, even there much  improvements have been made following ongoing discussions, so I haven’t stopped as a result. 

Subsequently we have many more members enjoying the added benefits as has the club. So it saddens me when I hear that there are members who feel they need to restrict or stop responding to members with offers of help and support. That’s not a criticism, I accept perhaps early on as an Insurance broker I developed a fairly thick skin. 

Regarding the Forum Etiquette. I don’t need thanks, but yes it’s nice and having recently asked for assistance on both occasions have thanked those who offered it. 

I’m disappointed that Cameron felt the need to removed his post and amended the thread name, initially to a full stop, no name. Then to the current title, as a result, I believe, following Lebro, why can’t moderators get like and disliked post and Wjgco taking that up on this thread, which is why I continued with that.

I am not in a habit of issuing red flags either (having checked my past posts) I can only recall once issuing a red flag following what I believe was a overreaction to another members post, but did not want to get into a unpleasant response. I have posted many many more positive ones including a cup. The likes and dislikes does give the opportunity to have a say without reprisal although I have no strong opinion either way, keep them or remove them but not retroactively name those that anonymously posted. 

I know that certain individuals wants to know who, but what will that achieve, members have already stated what they think of them, embarrassing, it would have no benefit. Perhaps I have posted more than I should, it’s not out of malice, (or squabbling in a bin) if that’s what anyone thinks, that’s why I am taking the time to adding this post, Please don’t stop posting or wanting to help others, I think it only depletes debate and the value of the club, enjoy the clubs knowledge while using this forum including the fun side both members and non members, but non members think about joining the club, the forums good but it also has a lot more as a club to offers and we are generally a good bunch even if we sometimes have differences of opinions. 

M

Edited by Misfit
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There are two issues. We have had a good, open-minded discussion. But the conclusion? I think there is a need for moderators to review the response options, some are less than helpful. Nice to have funny faces. But the red squares? The zeros? Are they necessary? I cited Quora as a straightforward site, from this point of view. Come on, surely you are familiar with "The Triumph Experience"? Very clear and simple.

For my part, I shall continue my hearts campaign, and rewarding low ratings posts with plusses, to cheer people up.

Why shouldn't we improve?

Improve our manners, and improve our software, while we are at it.

What choices, options, can the moderators offer?

I like the Forum, I read it every day, and contribute, whenever I have something to say. And Ilearn a great deal from all you clever clogs, engineers and brave DIY souls who took the plunge.

Edited by DavidBee
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The thumbs up was me David

It helps improve your rating

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:lol:

1 hour ago, wjgco said:

The thumbs up was me David

It helps improve your rating

:D:D

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