Richard Green 54 Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 During the recent MOT the tester commented that there was some play in the rear hubs. Holding the wheels at 12 and 6 o'clock the offside had a small amount of rock but the nearside was quite a bit worse. I have just gone back over the old MOT certificates I received with the car. The nearside play has been mentioned as advisory in a couple of MOTs from the last 10 years. Doesn't look like the previous owner(s) have bothered much about it. Looked at the WSM to familiarise myself with the arrangement and I am guessing this is not a Saturday morning sitting on the driveway job. Any recommendations for someone in the Reading/Berkshire area that has the equipment to do this work? Or do I just fit reconditioned hubs and drive shafts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Hi Richard, as far as the WSM is concerned the play in the hubs cannot be recovered by any adjustment. During building an internal tube is crushed to a specific point. Your wear now stops that point being adjusted back again - despite what many owners say. You could rebuild the hubs - but!!! You can fit rebuilt hubs - but!!! You can buy new hubs. The worn bearings etc within the hub will impart forces on the internal stub axle. How old is the axle and what has its history been. If the axle breaks you will lose the wheel !!!! If/when you rebuild your bub will you fit a new axle (£120+) If you fit a rebuilt hub what is inside it !!! Moss sell new hubs at £250 each and the work well. Bastuk do new hubs and I assume they work OK. My Moss hubs have now done a good 40,000 miles with no problems. Roger Edited July 15, 2020 by RogerH typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Green 54 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Hi Roger, The car has done less than 50k miles and from the MOT history the problem has existed since 2011. So I would guess that the hubs are original. I assume that the two taper roller bearings in the hub have worn and this has opened up the end float and resulted in the wheel play. Section 64.15.13 of the WSM provides instructions for reducing the end float. This is achieved by by crushing the internal tube a little more. If you look at the cross section diagram this makes sense as crushing the tube brings the inner races of the taper roller bearings closer together, thereby reducing the end float/play. I am probably being particularly dense but I don't understand therefore why at least some play cannot be adjusted out using the two locking nuts on the inside of the hub. What am I missing? Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Can't say anything to the new Moss-Hubs but I can not recommend the Bestück ones. I bought one and after a short period of app. 6 weeks there was too much play in a brand new hub. If you need new one go for the good parts or the quaife, which I like the most. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stagpowered Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 It is possible to adjust out end float. However if the end float is a result of the bearings wearing rather than not being set up correctly originally the play will soon return followed by grumbling bearings. I had just this problem on a Stag a few years back. I decided to adjust out the end float but by the following MOT the play was starting again. A 400 mile round trip one weekend found the bearings getting rapidly noisy on the afflicted hub. I happened to have a spare original hub, but I wouldn't fit a rebuilt one due to the number of catastrophic failures that have occurred after rebuilding. Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 18 hours ago, Richard Green 54 said: During the recent MOT the tester commented that there was some play in the rear hubs. Holding the wheels at 12 and 6 o'clock the offside had a small amount of rock but the nearside was quite a bit worse. I have just gone back over the old MOT certificates I received with the car. The nearside play has been mentioned as advisory in a couple of MOTs from the last 10 years. Doesn't look like the previous owner(s) have bothered much about it. Looked at the WSM to familiarise myself with the arrangement and I am guessing this is not a Saturday morning sitting on the driveway job. Any recommendations for someone in the Reading/Berkshire area that has the equipment to do this work? Or do I just fit reconditioned hubs and drive shafts? Hi Richard, In my view you are at a cross roads as to what type of repair to go for as I was in the same position? Re-con hubs are out because of their axle failure rate, so you have a choice of new hubs or to go to CV assemblies. My drive shafts were 40 years old and the sliding splines were worn. So I went to CV's that was 5 years ago', have I had trouble ? No! I went for Limora types, the only trouble with these is that the splines to hubs have to be hand fitted which means that you have to had tool making experience! As the engineer's blue and Swiss files have to come out. But they do trans form the ride from the rear end. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Green 54 Posted July 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Stagpowered said: It is possible to adjust out end float. However if the end float is a result of the bearings wearing rather than not being set up correctly originally the play will soon return followed by grumbling bearings. I had just this problem on a Stag a few years back. I decided to adjust out the end float but by the following MOT the play was starting again. A 400 mile round trip one weekend found the bearings getting rapidly noisy on the afflicted hub. I happened to have a spare original hub, but I wouldn't fit a rebuilt one due to the number of catastrophic failures that have occurred after rebuilding. Neil Thank you Neil, Roger and Bruce for your advice. The MOT tester did say that if the hubs were adjusted the play would probably be back next year. He also though he could hear a very slight grumble from the off-side hub, which was the better of the two. So I will take Roger's advice and fit two new hubs from Moss. Only problem is that they are currently out of stock. Hopefully this is just a temporary situation and I will email them to check. Thanks again for the help, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 I had the same issue. I went for CV axles and new hubs. It cost a bit but all problems solved. No more torque steer accelerating hard, a lot less noise and no more maintenance of the rear axles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 16, 2020 Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Richard, if you go the Moss route then give Moss London a call and ask to speak to Adam in the workshop.. They are made in-house and Adam would know when things are being built. As for cost - new standard hubs are apprx £250 each. The Moss CV mod' is apprx £1000 each. GoodParts in the USA do some nice stuff but although the base price is good you need to add postage, imprt duty etc. https://www.goodparts.com/product-category/drive-train/upgraded-axle-hub-kits/ Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Green 54 Posted July 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2020 The CV mod sounds quite nice. But for the mileage I will be doing the cost is difficult to justify. I think I will put the money into improving the bodyshell and removing some visible rust. Anyway I quite like the torque steer, it adds some excitement to my life Roger, I will give Adam a call. Thank you for the contact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 I checked moss for new hubs too. Not available as are TR Shop. I have an engineering company that rebuilds mine with upgraded bearings and the tooling to split the hub apart without warping the plate part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 hours ago, elclem1 said: I checked moss for new hubs too. Not available as are TR Shop. I have an engineering company that rebuilds mine with upgraded bearings and the tooling to split the hub apart without warping the plate part. Hi Clem, if you are going to rebuild a unit then seriously consider a new shaft item 42 Shaft This is one of two things that can snap and you lose the wheel. The old shaft can not be positively crack tested. It goes from good to broken is very short order. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 hours ago, elclem1 said: I checked moss for new hubs too. Not available as are TR Shop. I have an engineering company that rebuilds mine with upgraded bearings and the tooling to split the hub apart without warping the plate part. In my view the only way you cab split the hubs is to use the original Churchill Hub splitter which was made for the job, I have only ever seen one of these as shown in the BB. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Hi Bruce, those splitters are out there. Enginuity in Acton have one and it works so so well. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 I have one as well but I still wouldnt try splitting and re-building IRS hubs.I use it for solid axle hubs. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 What about a pair of Classic Driving Developments CV/Hubs for £1074? Straight swap but are they any good? Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 In one word, Yes. Regards Harry TR5 Nutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Green 54 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 23 hours ago, elclem1 said: I checked moss for new hubs too. Not available as are TR Shop. I have an engineering company that rebuilds mine with upgraded bearings and the tooling to split the hub apart without warping the plate part. Moss told me they are expecting to have stock in about 5 weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cubehopper Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I fitted a pair of brand new Moss hubs last year ,one only lasted 100 miles before the play increased to 28-30 thou. This was replaced on warranty and so far no more problems, but haven`t done a lot of mileage so dont know about the longevity of these hubs Fingers crossed the failure of the new hub was a one off. Incidentally I had a rear hub shaft break a few years ago, not a nice experience, proper sh*t myself Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 18 hours ago, PodOne said: What about a pair of Classic Driving Developments CV/Hubs for £1074? Straight swap but are they any good? Andy In one word, No (sorry Harry!, I had two sets, too much play, went for CDD uprated splined shafts & hubs instead) Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I have the Richard Good Parts drive CV type drive shafts and uprated hubs from the USA. These were installed back in 2009, and have done circa 80K miles thus far. They have been through the mill, both on road, track and endurance events, and still no noises or 'lift' in the bearings, so can recommend these. Quaife hubs (Ford Cosworth derived) are also very good and have proven track record in Motorsport, with the powerful 250bhp 6 cyl race cars. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 It’s a pity the Goodparts solution is so overly-expensive to order from Europe due to import duties and shipping costs, otherwise I would convert to his CC drive shafts and Nissan diff. I have ordered some engine parts, Very good, but the listed price roughly doubled once these costs were added. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 hours ago, iani said: In one word, No (sorry Harry!, I had two sets, too much play, went for CDD uprated splined shafts & hubs instead) Ian We have around Ten TR,S in NLG running around with these cv driveshafts and only one which gave trouble when in full droop on axle stands soon sorted by Alisdair CDD. Sorry yours was not sorted properly. We have one which has been running for at least three years and the long time owner (40 years +) just loves it. Regards Harry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D1070 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 +1 for the CDD cv shafts and hubs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 I like to fit my own refurbed ones at least I only have myself to blame if they ever go wrong. None of us know what the quality of the materials are being used, also how can you tell a new shaft from an old shaft once they are fitted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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