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A very ‘different’ Triumph..What would you do?


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DC5FA326-2328-4DEA-9FE9-A73AB00124A2.thumb.jpeg.d86b56b63897b73e084110bd135a6a62.jpegOK here’s the scenario...

25 years ago let’s say a friend  of a friend who knew  someone who knew someone who had a first mid life crisis requiring the acquisition of a monster of a motorbike (when really he knew he was lucky to get out of his teenager years virtually intact).... However, his lovely wife supported the folly and they had five years fun on this noisiest of fast but totally inappropriate form of transport, roaring (and what a roar!) around much of Europe without barely a care and even less of a front brake.....

Then 20 years ago I    Mean he finally went back to (most expensive corner of) UK with lots of other old cars, boat, couple of houses around Europe, new job, young family, huge mortgage etc, of course the bike came to but went into ‘temporary storage’... which due the above and ever increasing ‘priorities’ including the nagging doubt that his own teenagers should never get caught up with the buzz of how exciting motorbikes might be, the bike stayed in this state until the recent lockdown.  

 

Now, bike is (amazingly quickly .. albeit not to the level of quality and care of BFG Pete Sunbeams) back to being roadworthy..... that is not to say road legal in UK...... which is why all your expertise is requested.....

 

I.  This friend of someone who knew someone etc always knew the bike would never pass MOT here; no silencers, speedo, indicators(?) etc - or, perhaps that is it... Dutch plates and talking gibberish worked OK.

However, if he was to (say) now get UK registration - even just to facilitate sale to some other lunatic - would the 1971 bike need an MOT nowerdays?

What would you all suggest:

  1. Leave in hibernation for another 20 years
  2. Leave on Dutch plates (they don’t care about MOT’s noise etc on old bikes)
  3. If go the UK registration route, what are the hurdles
  4. a.n. Other
  5. 5...

 

 

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Tony,

I had 2 wheeled TRiumphs as a lad, so, come on, what is this one you your friends, mate has

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I think that this lovely motorbike should be offered as THE prize in the thread " that cannot be mentioned" .

This means that your "friend" will no longer have  to worry !!

Of course this  means  that the bike will be coming to Devon and Be able to breathe in nice country air ( with added horse, sheep and cow fart )

 

Edited by Crawfie
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Option 2 off course Tony!

It is still known in the Dutch licence register. 
https://ovi.rdw.nl/?kenteken=08vbjd

It’s from 1973 and registered in Holland in 1997. 

Hope this helps your friends friends wife cousin.

Cheers,

Waldi

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Just sell it. Let the buyer worry about registration. 
 

Very easy to get through mot with minor modifications ( that can be removed straight after) silencers etc

leave a Speedo on. 
 

sell it here its free and gets good coverage.

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/cat/15/

Edited by Hamish
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Goede Morgen Waldi,

Twee naturlik!

Yes, registered in Holland on the 25th May 1973 but, came off the Meridian production line (actually suspect that description is being overly generous to the company at that time?!)in October 1971 as one of an extremely limited pre-production run to try and get around USA racing rules (Honda still won!.... they complained loudest against Triumph and then ‘pulled same stunt but worse.... However, that’s another story and the rest... we know.... is history.....

 

Of the handful factory made, rules required 200 although Triumph took a pragmatic approach to this ‘rule’, you might well imagine how many of these ‘racing spec’ bikes have survived knowing the type of young lad who got to ride and race them..... (only two officially in the UK but gonna count mine!).

 

on a final note.... and totally bonkers...... shows the type of characters who would acquire an extremely rare race bike and then do what he did to ‘mine’?!......my friends friend I mean...... That’s the reason I reckon it survived!

(If you have spare moment this blustery day...it’s an interesting story to unravel... the clue in the type is in the ‘V’ (T120RV)

 

 

Groetjes, Tony

Edited by Tony_C
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12 minutes ago, Hamish said:

Just sell it. Let the buyer worry about registration. 
 

Very easy to get through mot with minor modifications ( that can be removed straight after) silencers etc

leave a Speedo on. 
 

sell it here its free and gets good coverage.

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/cat/15/

Thanks Hamish, I like that approach........ I will pass on via the friend of the etc...

Is carandclassic good for old bikes also, say, much better than eBay?..... just sold my first eBay item ever, one of the kids bikes and was pleasantly impressed how well it went

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Wait till George Clooney (aka Andrew Smith) sees this thread posted by you Tony, on behalf of the French Lieutenants Daughter, he will be salivating I am sure.

Happy Motoring, 

Conrad.

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32 minutes ago, Tony_C said:

Thanks Hamish, I like that approach........ I will pass on via the friend of the etc...

Is carandclassic good for old bikes also, say, much better than eBay?..... just sold my first eBay item ever, one of the kids bikes and was pleasantly impressed how well it went

It’s a good free classified /advert site. 
 

ebay is a more quick sell auction scenario. With fees.
 

I buy a lot from eBay but still only just posted my first sales item. A classic fishing reel !!

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Hi Hamish, thanks and from my very limited experience, I’m sure it will sell; appears to be some very knowledgable buyers out there on that site....

We had some of the bikes the kids had grown out of cluttering the shed and when my younger sister said she did not want for her youngsters, I thought too good to throw away (cost best part of GBP 500!) just put the make and size of wheels along with a couple of photos and it went down a storm... (second bike ends tomorrow, lots of ‘noise’ but only a paltry offer so far)

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MOT is exempt for 1971 bikes, but legally, morally, and for insurance reasons it is still required to be in roadworthy condition.  However indicators only have to work if they are fitted, and the speedo is not part of an MOT requirement, even though you are legally obliged to ride within the speed limits.  So without further info - it would seem to get the bike road legal in the UK would only require a silencer ..and for the brakes to work properly.!   Triumph's twin leading front brakes were good for the era.

T120RV is for the five speed gearbox. Nice spec but but not needed (nor in my opinion desirable) for the torquey characteristics of the 650. The 750 felt a very different engine and perhaps benefited from the five speed box, but the ratio spacing was too close and not brilliant and the first gear was too low to be of any real use unless for pulling street wheelies or for pulling away on the side of a mountain when fully laden with camping gear. 

1971 Bonneville is I believe the oil-in-frame model ..which do not command the same values as the earlier oil tank models, and with it being customised the value is much less still (the cost of good quality original spec parts are expensive and many Bonnevilles come in from the US so modified).  However they are still good fun bikes to ride, it owes you nothing and yet it's a good investment, and a great talking point when you have friends around for a barbecue.   

Personally speaking .. given the parking space and the interest - I'd keep it, use it and enjoy it   ..and perhaps over the next few years keep your eye peeled for the occasional bargains - to buy the correct bits, which will only go up in price but will enable you to sell it more easily / for a better price.

However should you choose to sell..  then imo Car & Classic is as good for classic bikes as for classic cars, but e-bay has a far greater circulation.  For £25 a month classified listing on ebay get's the advert seen (better presentation possibilities, with bigger / more pictures than C&C) and avoids most of the buyer irritations and tyre kickers.  I list on ebay but avoid Paypal (because of their high fees) in payments. 

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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1 hour ago, Bfg said:

MOT is exempt for 1971 bikes, but legally, morally, and for insurance reasons it is still required to be in roadworthy condition.  However indicators only have to work if they are fitted, and the speedo is not part of an MOT requirement, even though you are legally obliged to ride within the speed limits.  So without further info - it would seem to get the bike road legal in the UK would only require a silencer ..and for the brakes to work properly.!   Triumph's twin leading front brakes were good for the era.

T120RV is for the five speed gearbox. Nice spec but but not needed (nor in my opinion desirable) for the torquey characteristics of the 650. The 750 felt a very different engine and perhaps benefited from the five speed box, but the ratio spacing was too close and not brilliant and the first gear was too low to be of any real use unless for pulling street wheelies or for pulling away on the side of a mountain when fully laden with camping gear. 

1971 Bonneville is I believe the oil-in-frame model ..which do not command the same values as the earlier oil tank models, and with it being customised the value is much less still (the cost of good quality original spec parts are expensive and many Bonnevilles come in from the US so modified).  However they are still good fun bikes to ride, it owes you nothing and yet it's a good investment, and a great talking point when you have friends around for a barbecue.   

Personally speaking .. given the parking space and the interest - I'd keep it, use it and enjoy it   ..and perhaps over the next few years keep your eye peeled for the occasional bargains - to buy the correct bits, which will only go up in price but will enable you to sell it more easily / for a better price.

However should you choose to sell..  then imo Car & Classic is as good for classic bikes as for classic cars, but e-bay has a far greater circulation.  For £25 a month classified listing on ebay get's the advert seen (better presentation possibilities, with bigger / more pictures than C&C) and avoids most of the buyer irritations and tyre kickers.  I list on ebay but avoid Paypal (because of their high fees) in payments. 

Pete.

 

Hi Pete,

 

Always good to hear from you and, although I would expect nothing less, some wise words indeed!......

 

However, bit subjective may I suggest concerning the oil in frame? ....

Although Bob is in full agreement with you and he also does not get much wrong on here!..... True the very early ones did not have sufficient capacity but, to my understanding, majority of concern was down to pushing the ride height up - that issue has been resolved on mine, you sit frightened close to (or even occasionally on!) the ground when you approach any sharp corner at a speed higher than prudent.

 

Point taken concerning the 5 speed box but that was (mostly) all around the later production gearboxes from a different source (1972-3)   mine is one of the few pre-production with the factory gearbox.... “pulling street wheelies” - Not many pleasures in life used to come close, so I vaguely remember.... er, being told? - Seriously, this is one of the many subjects i think I would enjoy discussing in more detail with you, after first buying you a decent bottle of your favourite tipple...

 

You hit the nail on the head ref BBQ’s.... Of all the old and different cars Ive been lucky enough to own and or drive, nothing catches the attention like this bike, at full chat, or not..... Mother’s lock up their daughters, dogs (even my own!) run for the hills...... Only two things against keeping; not sure how long my knee will remain up to the task of kicking her over and the aforementioned concern that I should best not encourage my sons... (I had a ‘guardian angel’ but the ...”sorry didn’t see you”.. NO, coz you weren’t *@ing looking! Scenario wears thin after a while)

 

Look after yourself.. Cheers

Tony 

 

   

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Don’t suppose anyone is watching the’ Motorbike Show’ on Ch 4?

 

Switched over by chance and they are looking at the Honda CB 750 from 1969/70........ Makes the poor old Bonnie look like a dinosaur!..... As per Waldi note above, mine came off the production line in 71 they finally shipped it to Holland in March 73 and first registered in May 73.... Sad how Triumph had gone from the very best to this.... Basically, moving the deckchair s across the deck (messing around with oif) whilst the Titanic was sinking..

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On 7/4/2020 at 12:50 PM, Tony_C said:

However, bit subjective may I suggest concerning the oil in frame? ....

Although Bob is in full agreement with you and he also does not get much wrong on here!..... True the very early ones did not have sufficient capacity but, to my understanding, majority of concern was down to pushing the ride height up - that issue has been resolved on mine, you sit frightened close to (or even occasionally on!) the ground when you approach any sharp corner at a speed higher than prudent.

Tony Hi,   Yes it is a subjective opinion that most everyone who buys a Bonneville shares :D ..and this is directly reflected in values / prices realised.  The Speed Twin was created in 1937, although not introduced until after that war ..but it grew and evolved into the Daytona, Tiger, Trophy, Thunderbird and Bonneville.  That is to say a transverse twin cylinder with it's distinctive pear shaped tank and very rounded oil tank / battery cover style.  Sure the badges and stripes changed.,  but the James Dean , Lee Marvin. Steve McQueen. Paul Newman, Clint Eastwood,  Bob Dylan, Anthony Quinn, Marlon Brando, and numerous other lesser known and /or later movie giants were filmed on and even privately rode around on early (round style) bikes.   Oil in frame with flat side panels and then a slab sided petrol tank just weren't the same.  

That is not to say they weren't as good engineering, or perhaps even better in some respects, but they simply don't stir the same evocation nor attract the same values.  The iconic statement made by the silver screen was much better understood in America - where they retained the pear-shaped gas tank for the 750cc twin and triple.  But the management in Britain were old school dull-beige-suits rather than on-the-ball marketing men. They saw Japanese bikes with squarer styles outselling their own bikes and so they tried to copy them.  It was a knee jerk reaction to dropping sales which lacked either common sense or acumen.  The result was of course a further drop of sales and the bikes being thought of as unsuccessful.   An association which is also not good for their now classic bike prices.  They are just 'not as classic' as the original. 

That perception may be very different in Europe, but here in England it remains a fact.  In 20 years time, should you keep the bike then you'll find the gap closes as the old film stars become less iconic and more corny.     

On 7/4/2020 at 12:50 PM, Tony_C said:

 Only two things against keeping; not sure how long my knee will remain up to the task of kicking her over and the aforementioned concern that I should best not encourage my sons... (I had a ‘guardian angel’ but the ...”sorry didn’t see you”.. NO, coz you weren’t *@ing looking! Scenario wears thin after a while)

Kick starting a 650cc Bonneville shouldn't be that bad, as it's a relatively short stroke (compared to my Norton 850) and of course if it tends to kick back then the ignition timing is a tad too advanced.  And if it is however too much, then might I suggest doubling up on the head gasket to reduce compression. That's cheap and easy to do ..and still you'll scare the b'jeepers out of your dogs and be able to enjoy the bike for cruising.

Otherwise, I say ..  Encourage your sons to be men of adventure and full of life, able to achieve anything and to be who they strive to be.   Yes there is a risk but who of us who have ever done anything so alive really regrets it.?   Much better to get hurt once in a while than to never leave the nursery.

Pete. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks Pete...fair bit of interest already, which is fun (Not much else to keep me amused at the moment<_<)....... I’ve put a reserve based solely what a few others recently went for - none of them as good!.... which, of course, I would say that!

Not a clue what it ‘is worth’, we will see soon. The idea of the reserve however, was your wise words; I’d just as soon keep and know will regret once gone.... But, better someone new takes the project on and hopefully gets even half the enjoyment  we had:rolleyes:?

 

32BBC058-07E1-4F0B-B37B-83506F8D2225.thumb.jpeg.1e6e43911f02bce3d64d3eae7f0933f7.jpeg

 

 

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Nothing wrong with Oil in Frame Bonnies Tony:o. Here's my 76 American import after a bit of a spruce up. BTW I found the re-registration process to be very simple so still an option if it doesn't sell.

20200512_114333.jpg

20200515_183118.jpg

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Wow Sean, stunning!

Start with the tank..... tell me I’m not weird but ..... such a perfect design from every angle and yours is the Original colour scheme I always promised myself...

Not to start maudlin but looks like yours also stops as well as it goes... have you also got electric start that works?

 

Would finish by asking you, same to Pete, how you get the shiny bits so shiny? ..... However, expect the answer is much like the rest of life.... ‘hard work and knowing / caring what you are doing’

 

Thanks  for sharing 
 

 

 

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Thanks Tony,

There are pics of my tank repaint job in another thread here - I think in What you did in your garage this weekend" (or whatever its called). I basically tried to measure and eyeball the lines before I stripped it down then tried to put it back as it was. I'll post them again if you cannot find or are interested.

She was complete, but in a sorry state when I took delivery at the end of January, but lucky that lockdown quickly intervened and came to her rescue:D. She came to me from New Jersey, via a dealer in Denmark. The 3 pics below show her condition on the day she arrived.

I have not re-chromed anything, just cleaned and polished as well as I could. The chrome is not brilliant up close, but very presentable from a distance ;). She's had the top end re-done - barrels honed, new piston rings, valves re-ground etc, all new brake hydraulics including two new master cylinders but the rest was cosmetic apart from new tyres. The ally engine cases came up really nice with some wet sanding followed by metal polishing using a cheap kit for the drill from ebay. I've just discovered oil leaking from the front forks, so that's the next job....back to the youtube university  to find out how to do that one!

Cheers.

Sean

 

20200207_075210.jpg

20200207_075134.jpg

20200207_075200.jpg

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Great Sean,

Firstly, agree withBrian and Charlie clearly knows his stuff.

I will look out for - and find - your tank post with interest; you’ve done a terrific job.

Interesting, although I would not expect any historian to pick up on this down the line, lockdown has also been the saviour of my Bonnie - got to wonder how many more? - Over the years mine got pushed further and further down the priority list, till it reached bottom.... was looking to spend all my retirement years on her, Hey Ho;)

 

Cheers

Tony

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