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Has Boris completely lost the plot?


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Hi all 

Thought this would have popped up by now so here's a starter for 3 million more mouths to feed.

It seems uncle Boris's cheese has finally slid off his cracker with the recent announcement to allow a a starter population 300,000 Hong Kong British passport holder to settle here in the UK with the remaining 2.7 million having the right to come here and seek citizenship. Is the man simply stupid at a time of growing unemployment, housing shortage, BREXIT, a public sector on its knees and the risk of civil unrest around cultural differences to think we have any capacity at all to even consider this? I'd suggest the last time we undertook such a  monovalent exercise in the 1960's it was a short sighted disaster then and has contributed to a lot of the current ills and a growth in both left and right extremes.

Boris and co need to realise we are no longer a world imperial power with a few rowing boats to protect an empire to worry about and as such no responsibility for those countries which are not within our jurisdiction. As it stands China could swat us like files industrially internally and externally as in truth what have we to offer China other than a market for its products and growing influence making blusterous empty statements is well, stupid. The real risk is China calls our bluff and actively pushes 3 million people here for us to look after which will keep us all busy when anyone with a spare bedroom will be asked to take them in and schools have to dilute further the education they offer making us even less competitive. China on the other hand have then removed the problem, keep Hong Kong as planned and have a good few thousand  industrial spies nicely implanted for generations to come and a imported a culture with the potential to influence our politics in favour of China for generations to come. Win win in the long run.

I say no let China have Hong Kong, no right of residency as eventually the Chinese system of government will collapse as the majority realise they are been exploited by the few and will change it internally which we should sit back and watch playing the long game, a game China has played for thousands of years. Or maybe natural disaster takes them out as a result of famine then no doubt we will be sending them aid!

Andy  

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I imagine Boris and co are looking to the HK refugees to fill in the carwash staffing gap caused by Brexit. 

If I were one of them I would look at what happened to the Windrush generation before signing up to UK government promises.

 

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13 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Andy,

I think you will find that Boris knows that the Chinese Gov't will not allow all those people to leave HK.

And he looks like a humanitarian.

 

Roger

Hi Roger

I'm not sure they won't.

Three million is a mere handful of troublesome people to China but a great tool to cheaply destabilise a western county. it's what I would do if the boot was on the other foot for long term influence. 

Andy

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No we all have a in house cook but the pets best look out!

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Andy,

I think you'll find the Chinese will be VERY concerned about 3 million people walking away from Hong Kong for the following reasons.

1) Loss of face, (the impression that they have been beaten in a negotiation).

    Hong Kong is just a small peninsular and collection of a few islands, it doesn't have natural resources that makes it valuable or important. It's the people who live and work there along with many world leading firms, people from around the world in many instances that either work harder or work smarter than the rest of the world...and earn lots of foreign currency by so doing. Having a mass exodus of the tools that made Hong Kong rich will shine a light on the Emperors new clothes to the rest of the Chinese population, here's a small enclave that has peacefully (well by demonstrating that might have strayed into being forceful ), shown that they cannot be bullied by a government. China cannot afford for that to happen.

2) Loss of traders and specialist people.

The 3 million people who make take up their businesses and run, (and China can't stop that because their business is in intellectual rights or in their application to work, cannot easily be replaced. Their expertise has been built up over decades and contacts , know how, and the sheer bloody mindedness to put up with anything whilst they build a better future for themselves and by association the country that houses them. China has lots of hard workers but not combined with the trading and world exploiting expertise of Hong Kong.  China cannot replace them easily, or quickly if at all

3) The golden egg (the lots of foreign currency).

The Chinese government is greedy for the foreign currency that Hong Kong drags in, that was the whole idea of allowing Hong Kong to coexist with China...one country - two systems.

When I was last there in 2017 I was with a couple of ex Hong Kong residents, they showed me around...Stanley market etc, and their tales of being able to negotiate any items down were scuppered by those traders who would only discount by 10-15% instead of the 40-50% these same ex residents were used to. The light went from their eyes of these traders as they realised they couldn't tempt us at their prices and when questioned by the ex residents they complained of increased internal costs and add on's with the top figures being manipulated by the state to increase the payments made by them to the "government". There will be a considerable reduction in foreign currency for the Chinese government if these hard working people are allowed to leave.

If a large proportion of these 3 million people were allowed to gain British Citizenship their work ethic and determination to succeed, even more endorsed by moving to a new country I feel would enhance our futures and gild our efforts to rebuild our economy and future international trades.

Mick Richards 

 

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12 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

If a large proportion of these 3 million people were allowed to gain British Citizenship their work ethic and determination to succeed, even more endorsed by moving to a new country I feel would enhance our futures and gild our efforts to rebuild our economy and future international trades.

Sorry Mick I have to disagree what's left of our traditional way of life and values would be completely submerged. Hong Kong developed under our past influence and legacy to what you describe are you saying we need help to do it again here in the UK? Unfortunately I suspect we probably couldn't as we have become a soft touch to be pushed around by liberal idealists but I still like to think there are enough people here with the spirit to take it on.

As for China needing foreign currency they are raking it in while ever the rest of the world allows China to effectively soft steal there natural resources and then sells them there products a lot of which is cheap low quality knock offs using stolen technology and in the longer term a waste of resources. Cut that off and China will fall back that's why they send large numbers of students overseas to enter ours and others universities to obtain knowledge which is more valuable than the fees the universities take which have become dependent on the income and are more akin to businesses rather than educational institutions.

This has reached a stage where countries around the world are beginning to question of outsourcing production to China I for one try to avoid buying anything from them on quality grounds. France and Germany seem to value their engineers and industry and take steps to support it perhaps with BREXIT we can go further.

Andy

 

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Andy,

It isn't going to happen, refer to reasons posted 1 and 2 if you think China would turn up it's nose at this

"Hong Kong's gross domestic product has grown 180 times between 1961 and 1997. Also, the GDP per capita rose by 87 times within the same time frame.[31] Its economy is slightly larger than Israel's or Ireland's[32][33][34] and its GDP per capita at purchasing power parity was the sixth highest globally in 2011, higher than the United States and the Netherlands and slightly lower than Brunei."  there is more money here than anybody would like to pass up.

Whereas we have shown ourselves as being thoroughly good chaps and stand by the agreement made with China, and since broken by them (they had signed not to make major changes to the Hong Kong systems  before 50 years had passed). That's potted the left wing hysteria that awaits if we don't welcome these peoples, and their work ethic is impressive and as you say sadly will exceed many of our home grown unemployed. Even better if having confirmed our gentlemanly customs China refuse to allow the emigration and we don't have to do it.

Mick Richards 

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17 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Whereas we have shown ourselves as being thoroughly good chaps and stand by the agreement made with China, and since broken by them (they had signed not to make major changes to the Hong Kong systems  before 50 years had passed). That's potted the left wing hysteria that awaits if we don't welcome these peoples, and their work ethic is impressive and as you say sadly will exceed many of our home grown unemployed. Even better if having confirmed our gentlemanly customs China refuse to allow the emigration and we don't have to do it.

That captures the realpolitik very well I think. And I just wonder how those people might be inclined to vote in the UK?

Anyway if all else fails we'll end up with better dim sum.

Nigel

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I'm expecting the orange POTUS to beat the UK offer. For the wrong reasons as ever, but as a way of weakening Beijing.

 

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As a country we have welcomed some very dubious migrants in the past, however taken as a whole the residents of HK seem very industrious, law abiding, ambitious  and well educated so any that do come here might set a good example to other migrants.

But I cannot see the Chinese letting them go.

Alan

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21 hours ago, PodOne said:

Hi all 

Thought this would have popped up by now so here's a starter for 3 million more mouths to feed.

It seems uncle Boris's cheese has finally slid off his cracker with the recent announcement to allow a a starter population 300,000 Hong Kong British passport holder to settle here in the UK with the remaining 2.7 million having the right to come here and seek citizenship. Is the man simply stupid at a time of growing unemployment, housing shortage, BREXIT, a public sector on its knees and the risk of civil unrest around cultural differences to think we have any capacity at all to even consider this? I'd suggest the last time we undertook such a  monovalent exercise in the 1960's it was a short sighted disaster then and has contributed to a lot of the current ills and a growth in both left and right extremes.

Boris and co need to realise we are no longer a world imperial power with a few rowing boats to protect an empire to worry about and as such no responsibility for those countries which are not within our jurisdiction. As it stands China could swat us like files industrially internally and externally as in truth what have we to offer China other than a market for its products and growing influence making blusterous empty statements is well, stupid. The real risk is China calls our bluff and actively pushes 3 million people here for us to look after which will keep us all busy when anyone with a spare bedroom will be asked to take them in and schools have to dilute further the education they offer making us even less competitive. China on the other hand have then removed the problem, keep Hong Kong as planned and have a good few thousand  industrial spies nicely implanted for generations to come and a imported a culture with the potential to influence our politics in favour of China for generations to come. Win win in the long run.

I say no let China have Hong Kong, no right of residency as eventually the Chinese system of government will collapse as the majority realise they are been exploited by the few and will change it internally which we should sit back and watch playing the long game, a game China has played for thousands of years. Or maybe natural disaster takes them out as a result of famine then no doubt we will be sending them aid!

Andy  

 

Andy

I think you'll find that the offer BJ is making is based on the 1997 Hong Kong agreement between China and the UK

It's not something he has thought up of his own bat

It's not something Dominic Cummings has designed

It's  a clause in the agreement.

 

So, no, BJ's cracker is not cheeseless

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1 hour ago, Peter Cobbold said:

I'm expecting the orange POTUS to beat the UK offer. For the wrong reasons as ever, but as a way of weakening Beijing.

 

For those that want to and are able to get out, I understand that a location with a similar culture and language such as Singapore or Taiwan would be first choice (although Taiwan is facing some threats). Then perhaps Australia if they can get in and then the US where there is a successful and well integrated community on the west coast in particular. After that the UK might be considered. 

Miles

 

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The CCP is wasting no time in HK. Whatever our varying views about giving refuge to Hong Kongers in the UK, let's none of us forget how lucky we are:

https://www.france24.com/en/20200704-democracy-books-disappear-from-hong-kong-libraries

Nigel

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33 minutes ago, Bleednipple said:

The CCP is wasting no time in HK. Whatever our varying views about giving refuge to Hong Kongers in the UK, let's none of us forget how lucky we are:

https://www.france24.com/en/20200704-democracy-books-disappear-from-hong-kong-libraries

Nigel

 

The thumbs up was from me Nigel . . . . .you're right . . . . .we moan and we whinge, but, we have more than most other countries;

Real freedom to choose (which is deminishing)

Police without guns for the most part and where they do carry them, they are not visible

Our police do not carry bloody great sticks, 6' long, to beat the sh1t out of us, should they get bored

Unfettered rights to say what we think, within the bounds of decency

We are, by comparison to many, well fed, well clothed, warm, dry and safe

We get to vote for our representatives every 5 or so years, in elections that are pleasingly free from interference

 

Not bad . . . . Considering

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