michaeldavis39 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Hi just a simple question. I am fitting my steering rack with new track rod ends. The rack is New to me and didn't have track rod ends on it. So my question is could someone count how many threads they have showing from the locking nut please just so I can get this setup somewhere near for when it gets the tracking done. Thank you in advance. Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Sorry Michael, it does not work this way, even if you get the information you probably will fail. This is not up to you but because the rack, the rods and their threads will not have relaiable lengths. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 As they all have different thread lengths Marco is right it doesnt work like that. Get yourself one of these then you can easily get it right. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gunson-G4008-Trakrite-Wheel-Alignment-Gauge/224034361977?epid=14034410930&hash=item34297d1279:g:liUAAOSwWzJe2OFN Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Do not forget to lubricate the steering rack assembly. If new it may have assembly only type quantity of grease /oil in it. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Thanks for information and advise--I was just looking for a rough idea that's all as I said I will need to get the car tracking done anyway which I would get done professionally. Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 I've done it with a length of wood and a tape- to get it close enough to drive to the local tire shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Hi Michael, I suggest you work like this: Find the middle of the steering rack, meens rods off the rack, steering wheel "straight" on the column , same number of turns left and right. Then check the corrcect position of the "indicator return clip" in the middle of the indicator switch. if this does not fit you cannot turn the clip, you have to open and re-connect the steerung column in the engine bay. When this all fits turn both wheel "straight ahead" or an minumum in. Adjust the rods and put them in position without turning the steering wheel and without pulling / pushing on the wheel. Bolt them tight in the rad leavers and you are reday for a first short drive, if the steering wheel is not straigt andjust one wheel in or out. Now thre is something for those with new racks or aluminum brackets! With the car lifted / wheels off the ground, check if the track rod ends fit in the rod leaver (bolted on the vertical link) without bendinding then down! This was the case on my original rack, you can not be shure this works with new ones or (I've been told) with ali brackes (I don't use them). If this is not the case the coil springs always bend on the rack when you jack the car! Ask me why I know! Ciao, Marco This will bend on the steering rack when the car is jacked This (after some modification) will not bend on the rack when the car is jacked Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Marco only difference I see is one end is dropped into steering arm and the other isn't--can you explain what to look at in your photos as to me it is not clear. Thank you Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) In both cases the car is jacked, on the first photo you cannot get the rod end deeper in the tappered drill - sorry, of cause you can by pulling it down with a nut and bending on the steering rack. The second one will go in and tight without any problem, this will not pull / bend on the steering rack. For the photo I keeped it outside because if I put it in like on the first photo you only realize the "missing" nut. Normally you don't realize this because you fix the length of the rod with the wheels on the ground, then bolt them tight. This is an extra step. After fixing the length with the wheels on the ground you have to lift the car and check if you get them in without pulling on the steering rack. If not, they bend the steering rack every time you lift the car. I guess this is a not well known problem, I never found any post about this. Ciao, Marco Edited June 15, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 11 hours ago, Z320 said: I guess this is a not well known problem, I never found any post about this. Ciao, Marco Thats because it doesnt happen, there should be enough articulation in the inner rod end and the outer rod end to allow the suspension to hit full droop without any bending or there would be lots of cars running with tracking a mile out. I suspect the aftermarket parts your dealing with arent quite right. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 You need one of these Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, stuart said: Thats because it doesnt happen, there should be enough articulation in the inner rod end and the outer rod end to allow the suspension to hit full droop without any bending or there would be lots of cars running with tracking a mile out. I suspect the aftermarket parts your dealing with arent quite right. Stuart. Sorry Stuart, the problem is not "suspention to hit full drop", it is every time you jack the front of the car. Sorry me if I have not been expaining this correctly. The problem is not well known because the normal way to work on this gives you no chance to realize it. I realized it by accident and felt very uncomfortable about the fact. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Z320 said: Sorry Stuart, the problem is not "suspention to hit full drop", it is every time you jack the front of the car. Sorry me if I have not been expaining this correctly. The problem is not well known because the normal way to work on this gives you no chance to realize it. I realized it by accident and felt very uncomfortable about the fact. Ciao, Marco I jack up TR`s very often and have never come across this before Im afraid. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, stuart said: I jack up TR`s very often and have never come across this before Im afraid. Stuart. Perhaps a repro rack issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just now, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Perhaps a repro rack issue? This is what Im thinking or rod ends. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Perhaps the remakes failed to reduce the diameter of the tie rod just before the inner ball which allows more articulation but does mean the tie rod needs to be made of heat treated steel not flattened out man hole covers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, stuart said: I jack up TR`s very often and have never come across this before Im afraid. Stuart. Sadly time is on my side... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Perhaps a repro rack issue? Yes, this is what I wrote. Edited June 15, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Perhaps the remakes failed to reduce the diameter of the tie rod just before the inner ball which allows more articulation but does mean the tie rod needs to be made of heat treated steel not flattened out man hole covers Peter W problem is #8, it is much smaller on some (or all?) NEW steering racks, this is why you cannot angle the tie rods so much down as on OLD ORIGINAL racks Edited June 15, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 hours ago, stuart said: Thats because it doesnt happen, there should be enough articulation in the inner rod end and the outer rod end to allow the suspension to hit full droop without any bending or there would be lots of cars running with tracking a mile out. I suspect the aftermarket parts your dealing with arent quite right. Stuart. Correct and would be a mot fail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 56 minutes ago, Z320 said: problem is #8, it is much smaller on some (or all?) NEW steering racks, this is why you cannot angle the tie rods so much down as on OLD ORIGINAL racks I wonder where your rack came from as Ive fitted a few of the current stock of repro racks and not encountered this problem though I know Tony Sheach had a problem with breaking repro racks when rallying a few years ago so maybe this was where the problem lies. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) The rack is from 2015 and was sold by a relaiable TR workshop, I'm shure there are more of them out there, not only at Germany. The fact because #8 is smaller is - it is not bolted direct on the rack bar but on a threaded shoulder / offset with a some [mm] reduced diameter. On the fist look this is a "good idea" because with this the rack bar causes the diameter of the bush on the passenger side - and not the threaded end of the bar. Edited June 15, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 I wonder how the failing component compares to its predecessors, in original racks, in TR4s and TR3Bs, or the Morris Marina conversion you'd hear about in the 1980s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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