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Yesterday my TR3a was booked in for an MOT.  The car has been running beautifully for the last few weeks but Murphy's Law, as I was parking in front of the MOT garage I couldn't fail to notice a disquieting rattle coming from the engine.  It's not there when I am driving (maybe because I have hood down and there is too much else going on) and the engine still feels just as smooth but it is clear that something is amiss.

I suspect it is something to do with the timing chain as I have checked all the valve gear and tappets and they are all spot on.  Before I start stripping the front off to remove the radiator etc. does anyone else have a view?

I have a recorded a couple of videos to capture the noise, the first shows the rev counter with the engine ticking over at a pretty steady 750 rpm and you can hear the noise in the background.  The second is a short video of the engine bay and the noise is much more clear although it is not particularly obvious where it is coming from.  I have tried putting a stethoscope on the timing chain cover but that doesn't reveal a deafening rattle athough you can hear that it is somewhere down there.

Here are the YouTube links, the files are too big to load onto the forum.

Rev conter at idle

Under the bonnet and it's very noisy.

Rgds Ian

Edited by Ian Vincent
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Hi Ian Just heard your noise sounds like camshaft/followers unfortunately, a quick way to check for loose timing chain is using a strobe check ignition timing if the chain is loose you will

It sounds like a cam follower to me. It might be worth running the engine without the fan belt to establish if it is the water pump Regards John

On my 6 I have had a link on the timing chain come loose and catching the timing cover on rotation, sounded very much like your noise.

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5 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

Yesterday my TR3a was booked in for an MOT.  The car has been running beautifully for the last few weeks but Murphy's Law, as I was parking in front of the MOT garage I couldn't fail to notice a disquieting rattle coming from the engine.  It's not there when I am driving (maybe because I have hood down and there is too much else going on) and the engine still feels just as smooth but it is clear that something is amiss.

I suspect it is something to do with the timing chain as I have checked all the valve gear and tappets and they are all spot on.  Before I start stripping the front off to remove the radiator etc. does anyone else have a view?

I have a recorded a couple of videos to capture the noise, the first shows the rev counter with the engine ticking over at a pretty steady 750 rpm and you can hear the noise in the background.  The second is a short video of the engine bay and the noise is much more clear although it is not particularly obvious where it is coming from.  I have tried putting a stethoscope on the timing chain cover but that doesn't reveal a deafening rattle athough you can hear that it is somewhere down there.

Here are the YouTube links, the files are too big to load onto the forum.

Rev counter at tickover

Engine bay

Rgds Ian

Links just seem to come back to this topic unless its my browser?

Stuart.

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2 minutes ago, stuart said:

Links just seem to come back to this topic unless its my browser?

Stuart.

They should work now Stuart - I am at the limit of my computer technology.

Rgds Ian

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Still sounds like a tappet to me, listened to it a few times and its always difficult listening to clips like that to identify.

Stuart.

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Noise seems to be about twice Camshaft revolution I'd suspect Cam follower breaking down. How have you checked them ? it's unlikely to show up as an increased tappet clearance.

Mick Richards

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Just now, Motorsport Mickey said:

Noise seems to be about twice Camshaft revolution I'd suspect Cam follower breaking down. How have you checked them ? it's unlikely to show up as an increased tappet clearance.

Mick Richards

If thats the case I suspect Ian wont be happy as I think he`s already changed cam and followers already.

Stuart.

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It does not sound like timing chain, more like a single "tappet" gap too big. not heavy enough for small end.

Bob.

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It sounds like a cam follower to me. It might be worth running the engine without the fan belt to establish if it is the water pump

Regards

John

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2 minutes ago, stuart said:

If thats the case I suspect Ian wont be happy as I think he`s already changed cam and followers already.

Stuart.

That's often what happens these days Stuart, I've never had a camshaft or cam follower problem but I am finicky using camshaft and followers from the same suppliers and also use their recommended gloop and a ZDDP rich oil for the breaking in and then consequent running.

Mick Richards 

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5 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

That's often what happens these days Stuart, I've never had a camshaft or cam follower problem but I am finicky using camshaft and followers from the same suppliers and also use their recommended gloop and a ZDDP rich oil for the breaking in and then consequent running.

Mick Richards 

I seem to remember he did all that too :(

Stuart.

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On my 6 I have had a link on the timing chain come loose and catching the timing cover on rotation, sounded very much

like your noise.

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Posted (edited)

Cam and followers came from Newman.  They were all coated with the correct lube and have been working ok up to now.  I use Penrite Classic 20W60 oil and the oil pressure is good - 40 psi at idle after a long run.

Tappet clearances are all good (14 thou inlet and 16 thou exhaust) - I reset them before I took the videos although they didn't really need adjusting.

If I put my engine stethoscope on the head anywhere all I can hear is the quiet rattle of the tappets and if I put is down on the block in the area where the camshaft runs the noise doesn't seem to be very pronounced.

As I see it, I have two options, take the head off and check the cam followers or remove the front shroud and radiator to check the timing chain - which is it to be?

Rgds Ian

PS it's worth noting, it is a very sudden noise - last week I did a couple of hundred miles without any issues and suddenly it sounds like a couple of tin cans rattling.

Edited by Ian Vincent
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Hi Ian

Just heard your noise sounds like camshaft/followers unfortunately, a quick way to check for loose timing chain is using a strobe check ignition timing if the chain is loose you

will see it jumping around  

 

Chris

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2 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

Cam and followers came from Newman.  They were all coated with the correct lube and have been working ok up to now.  I use Penrite Classic 20W60 oil and the oil pressure is good - 40 psi at idle after a long run.

Tappet clearances are all good (14 thou inlet and 16 thou exhaust) - I reset them before I took the videos although they didn't really need adjusting.

If I put my engine stethoscope on the head anywhere all I can hear is the quiet rattle of the tappets and if I put is down on the block in the area where the camshaft runs the noise doesn't seem to be very pronounced.

As I see it, I have two options, take the head off and check the cam followers or remove the front shroud and radiator to check the timing chain - which is it to be?

Rgds Ian

PS it's worth noting, it is a very sudden noise - last week I did a couple of hundred miles without any issues and suddenly it sounds like a couple of tin cans rattling.

Check the timing chain by removing the front cowl and accessing the timing cover, if it's ok at least it's halfway into removing the cam and followers which will need head off as well. Before you dig in removing the timing cover try running the engine even without the rad for 30 secs max (won't get hot enough to cause a problem) to get a better fix on where the noise is coming from. 

Mick Richards

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I hate to say it Ian......that sounds just like the issue I had.......cam followers galling in their bores.

Iain

Ps. I think the various suppliers of these items should be shot, they are absolute rubbish. It took me a day....yes a day to get the last set to spin freely on the bores. The bores were and are unmarked. Total **** springs to mind.

PPs. The last set had not started to make a noise, but on removal, were starting to stick and show clear evidence of non rotation.........they had done 5000 miles with no issue. Like you I  used the recommended cam lube and Penrite 20/60. The bearings were like new so it’s not the oil!

PPS. Did the engine run 3/4 hot before this started? I’m convinced that’s what triggered mine to stick again.

Edited by iain
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2 hours ago, Z320 said:

The cain you can check by turning the crankshaft by hand or with a spanner.

There are videos about that on YouTube.

 

I’ve tried looking for videos but they are all about modern vehicles. 

I have a dial gauge and magnetic stand so it’s pretty easy to check the lift for each lobe. Is that what you mean?

Rgds Ian

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20 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

What would cause piston slap to suddenly start Neil?

Rgds Ian

Ian

Not saying it is but had that on one engine some years back and the little end had run dry and was caput and it did sound like that.

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Hi Ian, I had a noise very similar to that,  was convinced it was a follower or stuck valve guide, started to take the engine to bits and discovered a blown exhaust/inlet manifold gasket, i have a 4 branch like you and it was No. 4  exh. that had gone.

Cheers Rob

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44 minutes ago, iain said:

I hate to say it Ian......that sounds just like the issue I had.......cam followers galling in their bores.

Iain

Ps. I think the various suppliers of these items should be shot, they are absolute rubbish. It took me a day....yes a day to get the last set to spin freely on the bores. The bores were and are unmarked. Total **** springs to mind.

PPs. The last set had not started to make a noise, but on removal, were starting to stick and show clear evidence of non rotation.........they had done 5000 miles with no issue. Like you I  used the recommended cam lube and Penrite 20/60. The bearings were like new so it’s not the oil!

PPS. Did the engine run 3/4 hot before this started? I’m convinced that’s what triggered mine to stick again.

The engine temperature has been fine Iain.  Even when the weather was really warm the needle was staying just below the half way mark on the dial unless I hit trafic when it would go up to the point where the fan kicked in and return to normal.

Rgds Ian

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Hi Ian,

FWIW, I had my 3 breakdown last year, I suspected a dropped valve but it turned out that the no1 rocker shaft pedestal stud had failed.  This caused no1 cylinder to misfire and created quite the racket.  Something to check before you strip everything else down.

Regards, Laurence 

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41 minutes ago, Mr Blue Sky said:

Hi Ian,

FWIW, I had my 3 breakdown last year, I suspected a dropped valve but it turned out that the no1 rocker shaft pedestal stud had failed.  This caused no1 cylinder to misfire and created quite the racket.  Something to check before you strip everything else down.

Regards, Laurence 

Checked it yesterday before I readjusted the tappets, but thanks for the thought.

Rgds Ian

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