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Fuel Pump Specifications / Replacement


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Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. The specifications and other details have been very helpful. Yes I should have asked these questions before I bought my pump. My only defence is that I thought that if I bought a pump from Rimmer that it would be reliable, suitable for use and failure in the short term would be supported by their warranty.  An expensive education!

Just for an update - I found an Airtex brand pump with the correct output specifications on RockAuto, one of the large US online autoparts dealers. My local garage will fit it, and with any luck I'll be back on the road. 

Again many thanks to all, I appreciate the support.

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Dave, I've just replaced my Old Bosch (ex Rimmers) pump w a 044 sourced locally in NZ, $234 NZ pesos so about $150 USD (on discount) https://www.nzperformance.co.nz/categories/bosch-fuel-pumps/bosch-044-external-fuel-pump?gn=BOSCH FUEL PUMPS&gp=2.  If your new pump becomes an issue, let me know.  Otherwise there'll undoubtedly be an option local in USA designed for the V8 or "Rice racer" market.

Agree however that checking the filter is a v good plan.  My tank got rust all through it after either people filling the tank in the rain or contamination from poor fuel.  When the filter was clogged from that the pump was howling.  If yours wasn't I'd suspect the pump or the PRV

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On 6/10/2020 at 8:49 PM, David Soknacki said:

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. The specifications and other details have been very helpful. Yes I should have asked these questions before I bought my pump. My only defence is that I thought that if I bought a pump from Rimmer that it would be reliable, suitable for use and failure in the short term would be supported by their warranty.  An expensive education!

Just for an update - I found an Airtex brand pump with the correct output specifications on RockAuto, one of the large US online autoparts dealers. My local garage will fit it, and with any luck I'll be back on the road. 

Again many thanks to all, I appreciate the support.

Ive bought from Rock Auto as well, theyre a good supplier.

Stuart.

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Did a little research on the web and have found that my favorite (and expansive and seldom available) Bosch 0580254996 is equivalent to Volvo # 460821. And with that number I have found that pump (with max. of 100l/hour at 4bar): Esen SKV 02SKV005. It is a polish company I guess. https://www.skv.pl/en/Parts?searchString=0580254996

Has anybody heard of that company resp. of that pump? The pump costs a 1/10 of the Bosch and is available.

 

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1 hour ago, Casar66 said:

Did a little research on the web and have found that my favorite (and expansive and seldom available) Bosch 0580254996 is equivalent to Volvo # 460821. And with that number I have found that pump (with max. of 100l/hour at 4bar): Esen SKV 02SKV005. It is a polish company I guess. https://www.skv.pl/en/Parts?searchString=0580254996

Has anybody heard of that company resp. of that pump? The pump costs a 1/10 of the Bosch and is available.

 

Never heard of them, but you need to check the flow of their pump at around 7 bar, or whatever pressure your PI system is set up for. 

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None of the manufacturer have that data, the PI-driver has to check by himself. I have just compare it with the Bosch 996, respectively that pump should be the equivalent of the 996. The output of all the other recommend Bosch pumps is too big, they are all above 150 liter/hour. And with that the problems will start, I am afraid. I do not want to change anything, no bigger tank drain, no new PRV, just replacing the pump. Because my system works perfect, since 35 years. 

So maybe one of the PI-owners know that pump.

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3 hours ago, Casar66 said:

Did a little research on the web and have found that my favorite (and expansive and seldom available) Bosch 0580254996 is equivalent to Volvo # 460821. And with that number I have found that pump (with max. of 100l/hour at 4bar): Esen SKV 02SKV005. It is a polish company I guess. https://www.skv.pl/en/Parts?searchString=0580254996

Has anybody heard of that company resp. of that pump? The pump costs a 1/10 of the Bosch and is available.

 

Hi Casar 66!

Bosch pricing? I went to a company called Ellis Components who are an authorised Bosch Distributor for pricing of a 952 pump which was the original pump speced in by Bosch back in the late 1970's for a TR6 and PI Saloons. Prices in the open market ranged from £105 to £350 for the 952 pump. The Ellis price was the £105. I was also offered a Bosch FP200 type part number B261 205 413 01 as an alternative to the 952. The alternative was rated at up to 9 bar? But I went for the 952 as it had lasted over 40 years! You may get a good price off them for a 996 or any other Bosch pump. They also have access to the Bosch stock computer so you know what the stock situation is. Their phone number is 01773 873151.

Bruce.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Now that my TR6 has been happily functioning for a couple of weeks, I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this conversation.

At the end, my mechanic recommended and I agreed that we replace the Rimmer pump and filter with

Bosch fuel pump 0 580 254 979

Bosch fuel filter 0 450 905 021

(I know, I probably spent too much - but I really wasn't keen on tow number three.)

Again, thanks to everyone who shared their advice; I really appreciated it. Owners of TR6s with EFI in North America are lonely!

I thought the group would be interested in seeing what my conversion looks like; here's a photo from earlier this year.

D

tr6 20 01 10 engine top.jpg

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Dave,

that looks very nice and organized. Can you share a picture from the left side too?

thanks,

Waldi

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Thanks Dave,

your coil solution and fuel rail/cables look very neat.

Cheers,

Waldi

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I love my Lucas PI but that is a beautiful engine bay.  Many of the EFI conversions are a bit fugly (even if they are all the more powerful/reliable/efficient etc...)

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Thank you for the comments. Like all of our cars, it's a work in progress. Presently there are two matters on the EFI conversion that are focusing my attention

1. in the near future I plan to take my car to a shop that specializes in tuning ECUs. It's time to have a professional review the settings

2. I'm troubled by the location of the throttle cable - that's the one cable that goes right over the top of the engine. Not only is it unsightly (sorry, but true), but it is not great control. If I cannot figure it out in the next bit, I might post another message asking for suggestions.

Again, thanks for your comments; I appreciate the support.

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/14/2020 at 12:52 PM, Casar66 said:

Did a little research on the web and have found that my favorite (and expansive and seldom available) Bosch 0580254996 is equivalent to Volvo # 460821. And with that number I have found that pump (with max. of 100l/hour at 4bar): Esen SKV 02SKV005. It is a polish company I guess. https://www.skv.pl/en/Parts?searchString=0580254996

Has anybody heard of that company resp. of that pump? The pump costs a 1/10 of the Bosch and is available.

 

I contacted SKV-Poland by mail and requested a pump curve with current draw in it. I got no reply but when I called I spoke to a person who was very helpfull, and sent me some data: 100l/hr @4 bar. He doubted it would be suitable for 7.2 bar (105 psi). But it is listed as a 996-replacement. Like Casar, I cannot find a low flow (100 l/hr) Bosch pump.

I run a new 126 pump, it runs quiet, but draws 9A, and with 28 C ambient temperature heated a 3/4 full tank in 50 km from 22 to 31 degrees C. Disappointing. I understand many owners may not have an issue with the high-flow Bosch pumps, but I do not like what I measure. Fuel getting hot may stall the engine, but it also can result in boiling fuel. I do not want that to happen.
My ask:

1) Has anyone the pump curve for a 996 pump (pressure, flowrate, current)?

2) Has anyone installed a Bosch 996 equivalent and measured the current?

3) Casar,66, did you buy the SKV pump? I’m interested in your data.

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 Casar,66, did you buy the SKV pump? I’m interested in your data.

Yes, Waldi, I bought one and put it to my spare parts. I did not test it yet. But I am quite sure that it will work. The reason I have not tested it is the connection to the hose. The 996 has a 90 degree connector whereas the SKV is straight out (like most of pumps today).  

If you want to find out by yourself - it is just 36 euros.

The 996 makes 90l at 5 bar. Did not match the needed 7,2 either. But the Lucas do not need 100 or 90 liters, I cannot remember how much. But the Bosch reaches the 7,2 easily otherwise it would not run perfect. And there must be a kind of reserve because it runs a lot of petrol back in the tank. These are my simple thoughts why the Poland pump is expected to work. No heating, no nothing. Apart of pump and filter anything else is standard.  I can drive to the last litre in the tank (in deed it could be even a bit more than a litre what remains in the tank, but not more). 

 

Edited by Casar66
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Thanks Mike and Casar.

Mike,
the datasheet you provided (I think it was in an earlier post too) clearly shows the 996 pump has a very low flow compared to other pumps, this probably explains why it is so famous in out community. It does not show current draw unfortunately, but likely to be lower than most others.

Casar,
the SKV distributor (in Poland) has indicated to me that the 02SKV005 is suitable for 4 bars, and when I mentioned it would be used at 7.23 bar he doubted it was capable of doing that, but he may not have been aware of the full specification and could not provide a datasheet. I would give it a static pressure test first at say 8 or 9 bar.

For proper comparison, I have added a couple of pumps below that are often mentioned on this forum, so one can better understand the differences:

Pump / flowrate (l/min)/5 bar            (BETWEEN BRACKETS IS WHAT REALLY COUNTS FOR US, THIS IS AT  LUCAS PI OPERATING CONDITIONS)

0580.254.996 /  >90 / 5                       ( I do not have proper data of this pump in my posession, but likely it is the best choice).
0580.254.044 / 250 / 5                       ( 215 l/min @ 7,2 bar @ 16,5A); this is the "famous" 044 pump listed  in the above post, it is the wrong 044 pump!
0580.464.044 /     115 / 5                   (   75 l/min @ 7,2 bar @ 8 A); this is the "correct" 044 pump often referred to on this forum; do not confuse it with the above high power version.
0580.254.952 / 140 / 5 /   (9)            ( 115 l/min @ 7,2 bar @ 9 A).
0580.464.126 / 135 / 5 /   (9)            (  85 l/min @ 7,2 bar @ 10A). I measured 9A on my pump, engine not running, FWIW)

CONCLUSIONS:
The 996 pump (or a reliable equivalent) is the #1 choice for our application (which we knew), but unobtanium or very expensive. Maybe the 02SKV005 works? (not confirmed)
The 044 pump has 2 versions, make sure you select the 0.580.464.044, this pump comes 2nd best, but still draws 8A in our application.
The 952 and 126 pump are less suitable, but I'm aware several owners have reproted good experience on here.

A final note:
The pump curves below show characteristics of series products, for new items. Individual pumps may have slightly better or lower performance, and fuel temperature (density) influences the flowrate too (pressure in particular), and so does wear and poor voltage supply. As long as it is "sufficient", we will not notice that, only if a marginal pump is selected, this could play a role.

Waldi

 

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From a control perspective, it's never a good idea to oversize pumps in any application. If I were starting from scratch I would select a pump with a flow of around 125% of the MU full load fuel consumption at 7 bar. But I'm happy with my present setup with a 957 pump - it works so I leave it alone.

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Thanks Casar,

I had several documents I gathered over time, and condensed it to the most relevant info.

I would still like to see the pump curve of the 02-SKV005 first, before ordering. Am a bit disappointed this is not readily available, even not on request. 
We are clearly commodity goods end-users, if I would need such information for my work I receive it the same day;)
Waldi

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