Graham Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 So after a bit of a commercial disaster purchasing a TR250 bonnet on line (one persons surface rust and a dent, is another persons, me, this is rustier than a rusty thing and bent to beyond usable) I have decided to go back and try and sort out the bonnet I already have. Got it disasembled ( if I can get hot back together another matter !) but now I'm left with the rust you can see in the photo, have hit it with a wire brush on a grinder and soaked it in PO15 Metal prep. Now wondering what to do next, should I do Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 or do I need to go more caressive such as a spot blaster, just thinking the latter is a recipe for a bonnet covered in bumps ! But given this bonnet wasn't looking to bad it does answer the question should I split my bonnet the amount of rust that fell out was incredible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Hi Graham, Bilt Hamber DeOxC. Go for the liquid (not sure if they do a gel. Soak the area and cover in wet newspaper. keep re-wetting all day long. For my serious rust I use a 60 grit sander disc and a flappy wheel to get the heavy lumps off. A spot grit blaster shouldn't give you lumps. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Bilt Hamber do a Gel Deox which works pretty well, youll need to work it in well with a scotchbrite pad and re-apply a few times if its deep, you could spot blast as those little pot guns dont produce enough pressure to do damage, then repaint under there with Bondarust just masking off the areas where the inner frame is to be welded back on and spray those areas with weldthru Zinc primer, Once painted just waxoyl and forget. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave McDonald Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Graham, I had all the panels, including the bonnet, for my TR5 Soda Blasted late last year. It wasn't as rusty as yours but I was satisfied with the results and importantly no deformation of the panels. They are at Wolverhampton. See link below. https://www.sodablastingltd.co.uk/ Dave McD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Gents just read an interesting article on the web so it MUST be true. The active ingredient in Built Hamber DeOxC is .........citric acid and if you want to brew your own you can use Citric acid and wallpaper paste ! Given the cost of the citric acid and i must have a packet or 2 of wallpaper paste in the shed will give it a go and report back. The Mix ratios I have seen are all around 40g/Litre so I should be able to concoct 125 litres of the stuff for about £15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Graham said: Gents just read an interesting article on the web so it MUST be true. The active ingredient in Built Hamber DeOxC is .........citric acid and if you want to brew your own you can use Citric acid and wallpaper paste ! Given the cost of the citric acid and i must have a packet or 2 of wallpaper paste in the shed will give it a go and report back. The Mix ratios I have seen are all around 40g/Litre so I should be able to concoct 125 litres of the stuff for about £15 Hi Graham, you know full well that your reduced cost approach will cost you far more than buying a pot of DeOxC (about £12 to make 20Ltr) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 27 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Graham, you know full well that your reduced cost approach will cost you far more than buying a pot of DeOxC (about £12 to make 20Ltr) Roger Roger EVERY time I try to do something on the cheap it ALWAYS costs me money, bought a bonnet the other day because I thought it would be cheaper than fixing the one I'm now trying top save money on, turns out the replacement bonnet was a pile of P@@ but it still cost me £30 to get it delivered and £60 to send it back ! Oh Well its only money Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted June 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Well I said I would report back. First attempt, as per Roger's advice 80 grit the rust back to the point where you just see good 'high spots' then bonnet flat on its back just liquid citric acid applied covered with plastic sheet left overnight gave Ok results but Citric acid is REALLY sticky when it get on the garage floor and starts to dry ! a bit more research on the old Interweb and made a brew of wallpaper paste Citric acid and some 'special sauce' applied and left overnight covered with plastic and you can see the results. All I have done to the bonnet is scrapped off the sludge, then washed off the remnants and scrubbed with a wire brush, then used a conditioning disc to make doubly sure the thing is clean and finally wiped over with PO15 metal prep to stop flash rust. This stuff does not appeared to attacked any of the good steel There are still a couple of places along the front and scuttle edges where I still don't have bare metal so I may either have another go at these areas with my 'gloop' leave then and coat with DEox80, or possibly 'breath' on them with the media blaster.....Very Gently but need to get the G'box out this PM as I suspect the cross pin has sheared so that will have to wait and any suggestions or course of action gratefully received. Oh total cost of materials I estimate about £5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Looking good. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Hi all Tried most of the rust removers over the years the best by far has been 5L 40% Ascorbic/Citric acid diluted at around 3:1 on metal free of paint submerged for 24 hours. The warmer the water the quicker the process, wash and wire brush off. The Detox Gel I find tends to dry and is a pain to remove. The wall paper past idea think I'll try on the back of the bumpers but I'm not sure if it will attack the chrome if it comes into contact with it anyone any experience with Deox C and chrome? Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Graham said: Well I said I would report back. First attempt, as per Roger's advice 80 grit the rust back to the point where you just see good 'high spots' then bonnet flat on its back just liquid citric acid applied covered with plastic sheet left overnight gave Ok results but Citric acid is REALLY sticky when it get on the garage floor and starts to dry ! a bit more research on the old Interweb and made a brew of wallpaper paste Citric acid and some 'special sauce' applied and left overnight covered with plastic and you can see the results. All I have done to the bonnet is scrapped off the sludge, then washed off the remnants and scrubbed with a wire brush, then used a conditioning disc to make doubly sure the thing is clean and finally wiped over with PO15 metal prep to stop flash rust. This stuff does not appeared to attacked any of the good steel There are still a couple of places along the front and scuttle edges where I still don't have bare metal so I may either have another go at these areas with my 'gloop' leave then and coat with DEox80, or possibly 'breath' on them with the media blaster.....Very Gently but need to get the G'box out this PM as I suspect the cross pin has sheared so that will have to wait and any suggestions or course of action gratefully received. Oh total cost of materials I estimate about £5 Do be aware that once you have used POR metal prep you will need to clean that off before applying primer or it wont adhere., 180 grit and then scotchbrite to get into the pits. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim T Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 I had a conversation with Frost Restoration who said that using Phosphoric acid did much the same as POR metal prep but at a fraction of the cost, well about 30%. Used it on my chassis and then POR15. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 hours ago, Tim T said: I had a conversation with Frost Restoration who said that using Phosphoric acid did much the same as POR metal prep but at a fraction of the cost, well about 30%. Used it on my chassis and then POR15. Tim The difference with the metal prep is it leaves a flash coat of zinc on the surface hence my recommendation that when you come to paint you must rub the surface down to remove that. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, stuart said: The difference with the metal prep is it leaves a flash coat of zinc on the surface hence my recommendation that when you come to paint you must rub the surface down to remove that. Stuart. Surely that is the point of metal prep, that flash coat of zinc provides galvanic protection if the paint film is penetrated by moisture? Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 It depends on what primer your going to use, etch prime will peel off it, so will Bondarust Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Most zinc plated things are not painted immediately after plating As Stuart says the apint will peel off. The Zinc will produce an oxide layer to protect itself and the paint doesn't like it. You could wait a couple of years and then it will work. If you have a good paint system then the Zinc really isn;t needed. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted June 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 So now I've now got a big bag of citric acid and to much time on my hands today I tried electrolysis using Citric acid rather than washing soda ..............oh my! very effective cleaned a wiper motor bracket from as it came off the car to bare metal in 3Hrs but you have to keep any eye on it as the process actually heats the Citric acid very noticeably and certainly not what you want to do indoors! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 Hi Graham, how did you do your electrolysis ? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted June 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi Graham, how did you do your electrolysis ? Roger In this instance I had a 2 litre soft drink bottle with about the top quarter chopped of then 2 electrodes opposite one another but both wired to the +ve side of a old battery charger and then dangled the bracket in the solution Hooked up to the -ve really did bubble away very well ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 Thanks Graham. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Pope Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 6/7/2020 at 3:02 PM, stuart said: Do be aware that once you have used POR metal prep you will need to clean that off before applying primer or it wont adhere., 180 grit and then scotchbrite to get into the pits. Stuart ... but not when you go on to paint with POR15 as that's what they tell yoi to do. Some years ago I shotblasted my chassis (My Dax Rush, Not TR6) and then used POR metal Prep and then went on to use the POR 15 Rust Preventative paint followed by their Chassis Black as a top / finishing cost. IMHO POR15 is the best there is as it is just tough and even a hammer does not damage it. I will be using POR 15 for my TR6 in due course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 15 hours ago, Richard Pope said: ... but not when you go on to paint with POR15 as that's what they tell yoi to do. Some years ago I shotblasted my chassis (My Dax Rush, Not TR6) and then used POR metal Prep and then went on to use the POR 15 Rust Preventative paint followed by their Chassis Black as a top / finishing cost. IMHO POR15 is the best there is as it is just tough and even a hammer does not damage it. I will be using POR 15 for my TR6 in due course. Fine for a chassis if your using the complete system however my references were for panel painting so unless your going to paint your car in chassis black then my advice still holds. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Pope Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Ah, OK but was no expecting to use on bodywork as it is more for harshire areas IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Hi there, I have found that I get great results from a product range from MG Duff. The products re Zinga and the replacement over paint for the PU10 works really well. Ok not for every surface but chassis and suspension components. here's a link to products and worth the read. http://www.zinga-uk.com/case-studies/range-rover-bodywork Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 this seems to have similar discussion points to this thread which I've just found when looking at rust solutions. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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