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3A Grille bar crimping


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Decided to persevere with crimping my spare original grille even though it had a bt more 'patina' that the 'newer' one on the car. The original already had narrower bars than the newer grille and was softer material. Original bars on left; crimping on right.

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In case anyone else wants to try this some time, this was the technique I employed using adjustable plumbers pliers and two pieces of wood, cut to length as required. Crimped from the front. Even crimp along the bar and no damage. Also enabled fine adjustments. No need for a thin bar behind the grille when crimping.

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Once crimped, cleaned up the grille with T-Cut and some wire wool. I was going to lacquer it but knew it was twisted and reckoned lacquer would crack off on installation of the grille. So just went over with some RimWax. Scrubbed up pretty well.

Well, here is a comparison with the 'air-blocker' that was on the car and the original but crimped version.

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Worst part of the whole exercise was wrangling the pre-used grille on to the car. The one I took off has a convex curve as you can see. This morning I was gently curving the crimped version by hand round a lamp post outside the lock up. Even then the middle had to be further pulled out by hand once I had got it secured top and bottom in the mouth with the 4 centre screws. The sides were then forced in and the screws tightened in rotation. Only 1 screw hole had to be slightly elongated. However, when I next take it off I expect it to explode out of the mouth. 

Why would I take it off? Well, the oil cooler (now with a tunnel behind it to reduce air turbulence in front of the rad' - thanks for the suggestion Hoges) is now a bit more exposed. I might construct a smaller mesh cage to attach to the front of the cooler for that one in a million stone determined to pierce the cooler.

Miles

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I suspect we would all like to know, has it all cured the overheating?

Ralph.

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FWIW the grille should be flat unlike the ones you see a lot of the time especially in the US where its curved inwards.

Stuart.

 

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5 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

I suspect we would all like to know, has it all cured the overheating?

Ralph.

Ralph

Surely you realise its all about the tinkering rather than the effect!!!

Seriously though, need a good run out to test for any improvement although only expecting modest improvements. Alas, that may take a week or so but I will report back as always.

2 hours ago, stuart said:

FWIW the grille should be flat unlike the ones you see a lot of the time especially in the US where its curved inwards.

Stuart.

I am sure you are correct but with so many rebuilt mouths and after-market grilles, I expect you have to do a lot of wrangling too.

Miles 

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3 hours ago, MilesA said:

I am sure you are correct but with so many rebuilt mouths and after-market grilles, I expect you have to do a lot of wrangling too.

Miles 

It usually just involves a little jacking upward of the top section of the mouth as theyve often been sat on ;)

Stuart.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/2/2020 at 7:58 AM, Ralph Whitaker said:

I suspect we would all like to know, has it all cured the overheating?

Ralph.

Just to report back for Ralph and others. Last week took the 3A on a 1200 mile tour over 6 days, of Wales and England: Tracks, B roads, A roads and motorways. So the car had a thorough shake down (literally in the case of driving over Hardknott Pass and a couple of others in the Lake District). You will recall we had some pretty hot weather too.

Cooling definitely improved. I didn't have to use the override switch once all week which is unheard of. Inevitably, on occasions the temperature rose (but again not as regularly as previously) above 185 on various occasions but the electric fan would kick in. The additional notable change here was that the fan was much more efficient in pulling the temperature down quickly. In the past it would sometime take a (very) long time to drag the temperature down, presumably because the air flow (ambient and from the fan) is now much greater.

So this worked for me, but I have had to use all the options for my starter-holed radiator: thoroughly flushed system, bypass hose inhibitor, Tridon high-flow thermostat and the duct. Thermo switch in bottom hose is 82/72. Because I have an oil cooler installed close to the grille I had also fabricated a duct / tunnel from that to the radiator to force air directly to the rad and reduce air turbulence behind the oil cooler. By the end of the tour I had stopped my obsessive checking of the temp gauge.

Miles

Edited by MilesA
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Thats quite a road trip. I've never been more than a few hundred miles in ours, but I don't think there would be a problem. Although fitting everything in would be a problem, the boot is normally full of parts and tools so it's back seat for holiday clothing only. My wife is not keen on the car, so it's never used for these kind of trips, it's just me and my son time. 

Must admit it does sound a really nice idea and will have to give it some thought. It's good that you seem to have the temp under control and it's been interesting to follow 

Neil

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Hi Neil

They are tough old cars and as long as properly serviced will go far. Of course at 60 years old things can go wrong but that is life life with a classic car. But they are better for being used.

As for tools and spares, I can pack all that I am likely to use at the roadside in the spare wheel  / compartment (and its a pretty comprehensive collection of both). Ultimately, I have the TR Insurance / AA if things become terminal.

I will list the daily tour locations in case they are of interest to anyone else. We discovered some absolutely stunning scenery and driving roads. There used to be a Tours Forum but I cannot see it now, so it will be in the Out and About forum.

Miles

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  • 2 weeks later...

July in Canada is becoming hotter and hotter, near 40C regularly and as I drove the 3A almost every day I found it had real trouble in the small city I live in with high temperatures especially in heavier traffic.  The fan was running constantly.  As soon as I get out of the city onto the back roads it cools to appropriate levels.  So city driving is the problem.

I believe I have multiple heat problems including the alternator shielding issue which was dealt with elsewhere.

I have properly flushed the radiator that was re-cored two years ago.  Asf ar as I can determine an aluminium rad won't help that much if at all.

I don't believe an overide switch on the fan is necessary (or beneficial) because the fan doesn't shut off at any point in that environment and continues to run long after the engine has been turned off.  I am also not sure how much impact flattening the grille cross bars will help. 

The only solution I see that makes any sense is to cut louvres in the bonnet.  However, the further I get into this the more I realize that once I have managed to get the car to where I have enough confidence in it to drive it on a long journey I will eventually end up driving it in the rain which makes me wonder what will happen if I do put the louvres in the bonnet. 

So it comes down to what heat management options make sense to incorporate into a versatile daily driver (3C to 40C, rain and sun) that can be taken on tour?

 

 

 

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David.  I am presuming you have the standard ducting fitted behind the grill to channel air into the rad. Without it the car will really struggle to keep cool.

Bob.

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44 minutes ago, David Owen said:

July in Canada is becoming hotter and hotter, near 40C regularly and as I drove the 3A almost every day I found it had real trouble in the small city I live in with high temperatures especially in heavier traffic.  The fan was running constantly.  As soon as I get out of the city onto the back roads it cools to appropriate levels.  So city driving is the problem.

I believe I have multiple heat problems including the alternator shielding issue which was dealt with elsewhere.

I have properly flushed the radiator that was re-cored two years ago.  Asf ar as I can determine an aluminium rad won't help that much if at all.

I don't believe an overide switch on the fan is necessary (or beneficial) because the fan doesn't shut off at any point in that environment and continues to run long after the engine has been turned off.  I am also not sure how much impact flattening the grille cross bars will help. 

The only solution I see that makes any sense is to cut louvres in the bonnet.  However, the further I get into this the more I realize that once I have managed to get the car to where I have enough confidence in it to drive it on a long journey I will eventually end up driving it in the rain which makes me wonder what will happen if I do put the louvres in the bonnet. 

So it comes down to what heat management options make sense to incorporate into a versatile daily driver (3C to 40C, rain and sun) that can be taken on tour?

 

 

 

The radiator ducting is critical in a 3A.

A poor repro grill  can act as an air dam...don't ask how i know!

Is the engine block sludged up? Does the drain tap run freely by No4 cylinder? These blocks do fur up badly.

Have you reduced the water flow through the bypass hose? This makes a significant difference from my experience.

Louvres look great but in the wrong place make thinks worse not better, especially if too close to the windscreen. The air just stalls in this area

Iain

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So by ducting do you mean the fibreboard duct?

Also, the bypass hose?  How would I reduce the flow?

I believe the water pump was upgraded to 8 (might be 6) blades as opposed to the original 4.

Edited by David Owen
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Yes, the fibreboard

Bypass flow is supposed to be reduced as the engine warms up by the thermostat, but only if you have the correct sort, these are the bellows type with a cylindrical shield which blocks off the bypass port as it moves to the hot position. If you have a different type of thermostat, then it is advantageous to insert a partial blockage in the rubber hose, people have used discs with small hole drilled in them. there are many opinions about this.

I have the correct shielded type of thermostat, & have not had any problem.

Some of the "upgraded" water pumps are not as good as the original. !

Bob.

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David I know this sounds daft but have you measured the temps rather than rely on the gauge or fan activation 

either Thermostat  may be a bit wayward giving you false concerns. 
 

I understand my car better now ( 4 years on) and the temps will rise to the mark beyond the 185f middle mark in traffic. I think this mark is just over 200f but this still isn’t boiling. The elec fan brings it back to 185f.

just worth checking. 

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David

its possible to get the original bellows NOS,  in various temperature grades, try Ebay.

I have a standard bellows stat, and a restrictor, which does make a difference. In 3000 miles of motoring in 12 days (to and from) and on the Liege Brescia Liege last year we had absolutely no issues, but everything needs to be right.

Iain

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In terms of the function as a thermostat, the modern waxstat type is probably best for flow rate and reliability.  That is not how the TR engine was designed however, so for the TR engine the sleeved-bellows type is correct.  The compromise is to use a modern waxstat thermostat to get good flow and reliability, and to fit a flow reducer in the bypass hose to retain the benefit of faster warm-up without excessive bypass when hot. 

Note the standard thermostat is not just a bellows type which are relatively common - it should have the additional sleeve too, to blank off the bypass and those are not so common. 

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23 minutes ago, Hamish said:

David I know this sounds daft but have you measured the temps rather than rely on the gauge or fan activation 

either Thermostat  may be a bit wayward giving you false concerns. 
 

I understand my car better now ( 4 years on) and the temps will rise to the mark beyond the 185f middle mark in traffic. I think this mark is just over 200f but this still isn’t boiling. The elec fan brings it back to 185f.

just worth checking. 

 

 

Will definitely do this before I start changing things..   Thank you.

Edited by David Owen
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