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Horn Boss setup with Moto lita steering wheel


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Hi Gents,

My horn was been a bit “intermittent” over the years, so I thought I would try and get to the bottom in the correct set up.

I’ve attached a couple of photos and was unsure if 

1. I had anything missing- there is a horn ring on the original TR5 steering wheel.

2. Should I replace the push for pencil as the contacts look a bit worn?

3. Line up the copper strip with the pencil?

 Thanks in advance

Doyley

 

 

 

 

5689D82C-9A1A-40F5-A52C-9134508C587B.jpeg

A5A7F3C6-3EA0-476A-BE3E-78AAE9867346.jpeg

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I had awful trouble with my Motolita boss horn connection which I never managed to sort out - replaced with a Tourist Trophy boss (even cheaper when they have a Special,offer) from Moss and has been perfect ever since.

....... Andy 

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The 'pencil' connects to the slip ring at the top of the column and provides the positive. The 'orrid bit of bent copper on your horn push must connect to the pencil. The springy bit on the side of the horn push must make an electrical contact with the boss, which in turn provides the earth assuming there is continuity down the column, across the u/j's with link wire, down to the rack and through the earth strap to the chassis. You could solder a wire direct to the pencil to take the bendy copper out of the equation which gives you a better chance of getting the horn push on straight, and you need to make sure all the other links are in place. Don't allow the boss to touch the outer column, but I'm sure you know that.

All together now: 'The slip ring connects to the pencil-bone, the pencil connects to the horn push-bone, ..........'

Jerry

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17 hours ago, DOYLEY said:

Hi Gents,

My horn was been a bit “intermittent” over the years, so I thought I would try and get to the bottom in the correct set up.

I’ve attached a couple of photos and was unsure if 

1. I had anything missing- there is a horn ring on the original TR5 steering wheel.

2. Should I replace the push for pencil as the contacts look a bit worn?

3. Line up the copper strip with the pencil?

 Thanks in advance

Doyley

 

 

 

 

5689D82C-9A1A-40F5-A52C-9134508C587B.jpeg

A5A7F3C6-3EA0-476A-BE3E-78AAE9867346.jpeg

Hi Doyley if memory serves I'm sure I soldered a flexible  'Jump wire" from the brass end of the pencil to the contact on the horn push, but possible as a first step a good clean of both contact surfaces and a tweak on the horn push contact to make sure you have a good connection between to 2 might be a less invasive option 

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Do make sure you have the right length pencil for a start as there are two lengths.

Stuart.

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Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your contributions, very helpful.

I am an infrequent poster, so its really pleasing to be offered help.

Owning and running a TR5 , its always difficult to get he correct advice, and it’s impossible  to know who to ask most of the time as very few understand the beast.

Thank again all.

Regards

Doyley

 

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Hi Guys,

Some great advice on replacing the pencil, and soldering a jump wire to keep it in contact , with the “horrible copper strip

However I’ve got to the bottom of my horn problem.

Nearly broken wire , on sterling column.

See photo , as it fell apart, as I fiddled with it...

Does any one know what size/type  wire , this should be replaced with?

I always like to check these things if I can 

Many Thanks

Doyley

 

 

 

9AD42EA0-19FD-4E2E-A926-4B9367527B14.jpeg

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Doyley

That is the wire that earths the horn - You need part No 130581which is a braided wire that would have been there originally.

 Andrew

Edited by ANFRUSSELL
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...and do not forget to check the circuit to Earth at the rack.   I think it will be a black wire with a ring terminal on the grease plug above the pinion.

Peter W

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On 5/18/2020 at 4:03 PM, DOYLEY said:

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your contributions, very helpful.

I am an infrequent poster, so its really pleasing to be offered help.

Owning and running a TR5 , its always difficult to get he correct advice, and it’s impossible  to know who to ask most of the time as very few understand the beast.

Thank again all.

Regards

Doyley

 

The horn set-up was first used on the Triumph Herald and then applied to most of the 1960's Triumphs, not the 2000 saloon, so all of the problems are well known in Triumph circles.  From my point of view the advice has been spot on.

Dave

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Hi Doyley, 

Looking at your photo - I would check that the bolts going through the rubber doughnut are all lock wired - the bolt that still has the earth wire attached appears to be an allen bolt with a nut on the end for attachment of the earth wire. It should be lock wired to the opposite allen bolt - see photos attached. The earth wire should run through the centre of the doughnut.

(It seems Triumph changed from a drilled ordinary bolt to a drilled allen bolt at some time)

Regards Ian

Steering Column Clamp TR6.JPG

Steering Column Clamp.JPG

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Never understood that obsession about lock wiring, I'm using "R" clips which are easily removable and reusable without compromising safety.

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Hi all

Not wishing to hijack this thread, but it's too close to my own question to warrant a separate one I think - I too have a MotaLita wheel. The horn  push has no 'spring' whatsoever left in it - zero, zilch, nada - it just flops around. Is it possible to open them up to check the innards by removing the spring washers from the plastic locating pins? Also at some stage in its life has overheated (!).  Having seen this thread and the associated issues, would you replaced with MotaLita push or Tourist Trophy (Moss)? 

Also, the wiring currently runs down the column on its own (the red wore in the image below) - so tight it barely can be pulled up or down. If wired correctly should it run inside the outer sheath for the wiring for lights or the wipers that are just visible to the left/right of the red wire?

Many thanks in advance

Dave

Horn wire routing

20200531_083403.jpg

20200531_083414.jpg

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If that red wire is carrying a live and is winding round with the column (as I don't see a slip ring) then it is an accident waiting to happen. Disconnect it immediately.

Jerry

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13 hours ago, TRbeginner said:

Thats why Im asking the question Jerry, thanks. It actua;lly runs down the outside of the column. My question was where should it run? Inside the sheaths for the lights or wipers ....or elsewhere. 

Thanks

Dave

Yes it should run in the cable tray.

Stuart.

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1 hour ago, TRbeginner said:

Stuart, thanks for your response. Just to be sure - is this what you mean by the cable tray

The column harness cover - https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/cover-column-harness-611369.html?assoc=131038

If so, then it is currently correct but very tight.

Thanks

Dave

Dave thats the one but it should terminate on 6 shown here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/electrical-system/horns/horns-tr5-6-1967-76.html then 5 should go through your steering wheel boss, which then connects to the copper tab on the back one the horn push 

Edited by Graham
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Apologies for the fairly simple question here - I feel I should be able to work this out, but cannot see why the following tests are giving different results.

I returned to the  TR5 horn rewiring job yesterday. Inspecting the old parts  had shown that the pencil had overheated and distorted. I couldn't find any problem with the wiring from the main loom to the slip ring. As a result of the pencil now 'sticking' during compression due to the aforementioned distortion I have replaced the pencil ( I guess that this may have caused the original overheating?).

When the horn is fully assembled it doesn't work. When the horn assembly is partially assembled  (without push and boss/wheel) I tested the horn using a temporary wire from the pencil to two different earths as follows

1) When the chosen earth was inner column (in in standard full assembly terms it would be earthed this way via the boss I believe), there is no horn.

2) However if the chosen earth is the  outer column surround  (near the indicator switch lugs)the horn it works perfectly.

My understanding was that the horn is earthed via the boss inner and column. As far as I can tell there is no break in the earth wire at the bottom of the column. 

Any guidance as to what I have missed (or misunderstood) would be much appreciated thanks. 

Dave

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11 minutes ago, TRbeginner said:

Apologies for the fairly simple question here - I feel I should be able to work this out, but cannot see why the following tests are giving different results.

I returned to the  TR5 horn rewiring job yesterday. Inspecting the old parts  had shown that the pencil had overheated and distorted. I couldn't find any problem with the wiring from the main loom to the slip ring. As a result of the pencil now 'sticking' during compression due to the aforementioned distortion I have replaced the pencil ( I guess that this may have caused the original overheating?).

When the horn is fully assembled it doesn't work. When the horn assembly is partially assembled  (without push and boss/wheel) I tested the horn using a temporary wire from the pencil to two different earths as follows

1) When the chosen earth was inner column (in in standard full assembly terms it would be earthed this way via the boss I believe), there is no horn.

2) However if the chosen earth is the  outer column surround  (near the indicator switch lugs)the horn it works perfectly.

My understanding was that the horn is earthed via the boss inner and column. As far as I can tell there is no break in the earth wire at the bottom of the column. 

Any guidance as to what I have missed (or misunderstood) would be much appreciated thanks. 

Dave

Check the link wires through the column doughnuts and that you have an earth wire from the rack to the chassis.

Stuart.

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