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Webers. What type?


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Hi all,

Probably been done to death but can’t find answer  I’m looking for. 
 

Want a triple Weber setup. I know I need dcoe40 but what do the type numbers mean? Which ones should I get?  I assume all three need to be the same type. 
 

what are people’s view on the other makes of dcoe 40 carbs (copies)?

Cheers

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I'm with Marki,

These days there are 3 options.

Stick with twin SU's if you are happy.

Stick with Lucas PI if you are happy.

Convert to Efi if you wish.  A tripple Weber or Dellorto set up is likely to set you back nearly as much as an efi conversion and is probably a blind alley these days.

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4 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

 A tripple Weber or Dellorto set up is likely to set you back nearly as much as an efi conversion and is probably a blind alley these days.

Really? Thats a very sweeping statement when you consider how many are running very happily and fast on Webbers.

Stuart.

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I wasn't suggesting swapping from Webers to Efi but if you are going to shell out a significant amount of money on a Weber set up you  might as well consider going for efi. In the past a Weber or Dellorto set up was an option.

Not intended as a sweeping statement but why not? Gives the bling factor of Webers as many of the bodies have been designed to look like Webers and should be able to be easily adapted to all states of tune and there are probably more people with the skill to set up efi than Webers these days.

If you are going to deviate from the two original options (I have grouped SUs and Strombergs together) efi should trump a Weber set up in terms of power, reliability and economy. And for a generation of drivers who aren't used to chokes, half throttle when warm a whole lot easier to use.

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If I remember correctly this is a US spec car you have and you were intending upgrading the engine. What have you done, or what are you  intending to do. 
Efi is certainly a consideration, if your happy with that sort of approach, however personally for me if it’s not Pi then carbs would be my choice. If you have no previous experience with Weber’s then it’s important to appreciate what your taking on.I’ve been using them since the mid 70s, firstly on a Lotus Cortina then on my Tr6 and I’m still learning. I would say only go this route if your prepared to take on the extra learning and enjoy it  

Having said all that, once the Weber’s are set up properly they are very reliable and car be reasonably economical, particularly when touring. Last year three of us covered 2500miles across France and Spain, my car and two PIs, I used the least fuel. However give the car a bit of welly and your down in the mid teens MPG.


I would recommend you watch this series of videos .This guy explains things well and will answer a lot of your questions.

Cameron

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Cameron said:


If I remember correctly this is a US spec car you have and you were intending upgrading the engine. What have you done, or what are you  intending to do. 

Cameron

Yes I was going to do a couple of things, supercharge it was one option, BMW engine was another and 1UZ V8 a third. 
then found out it was matching numbers and didn’t have the heart not to use the original engine. So that ruled out the V8 and BMW engines. The supercharge was my first definitely maybe, going to possibly modify the engine but then I heard a few and felt the whine would get up my nose. 
 

I like the look of triple Weber’s. They give some poke,  Sound awesome and would be more in keeping with the car I think. Not fussed about fuel consumption. It’s not a daily and sound is more important.

This may not make sense to many but what ever floats your boat. 
 

I still want to put a V8 in one but need to get another US car that has a dead engine. That then takes away the stress of gutting the car because it’s then just a shell- the soul has departed!
 

The 1UZ engine would make an awesome exchange but would be heavy on the “cut and shut” work. But it does just fit.....just. Steering column is a bit of a nightmare.  The engines are bomb proof and cheap. Can mount it to a 6 speed manual Lexus is200 box and Lexus rear diff. 250 to 280 bhp and rev to over 7000rpm. What’s not to like!

As yet, I can’t find anyone who’s done it. 
 

let’s finish this one first!

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I would stand Weber DCOEs against anything including EFI for reliability. They are by far the most reliable component on my TR250 which has done 130,000 trouble-free miles on a set of very old 40DCOE18s sporting brass throttle shafts. They cost me $200 in 1996 for all (3). I was over the moon with joy once I went through a few iterations with jets, chokes etc. on a stock engine with only Kent TH2 cam and head shave.

In my humble opinion any other deviation from original equipment degrades the value of these cars ( monetary, that is ).

Precious little power gain is to be had with EFI over these when properly jetted. On the occasion of TRIUMPH's 50 year anniversary a Webered TR5 beat (2) EFI'd TR6s at Mid-Ohio racetrack, the latter of which claimed to have 260 BHP.

Which ones to use: -18s, -2s or -151s. These will all be calibrated the same for a given application except the -151s have plastic floats requiring a different setting.

One of a kind EFI systems on TR6s abound, many understood only by their fitters. Webers are known world wide and offer vintage cachet in keeping with the period the cars were built, unsurpassed reliability and tremendous satisfaction when dialed in. 

I continue to suggest that had TRIUMPH fitted Weber DCOEs to the non-US market cars the whole lot would be worth 2-3X what they fetch today. 

They don't look too shabby either.

 

Tom

TRIALS concours engine bay.jpg

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23 hours ago, Cameron said:


If I remember correctly this is a US spec car you have and you were intending upgrading the engine. What have you done, or what are you  intending to do. 
Efi is certainly a consideration, if your happy with that sort of approach, however personally for me if it’s not Pi then carbs would be my choice. If you have no previous experience with Weber’s then it’s important to appreciate what your taking on.I’ve been using them since the mid 70s, firstly on a Lotus Cortina then on my Tr6 and I’m still learning. I would say only go this route if your prepared to take on the extra learning and enjoy it  

Having said all that, once the Weber’s are set up properly they are very reliable and car be reasonably economical, particularly when touring. Last year three of us covered 2500miles across France and Spain, my car and two PIs, I used the least fuel. However give the car a bit of welly and your down in the mid teens MPG.


I would recommend you watch this series of videos .This guy explains things well and will answer a lot of your questions.

Cameron

 

 

 

 

 

Great video - now I understand why Webers are so difficult to setup!

Cheers

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16 hours ago, Tom Fremont said:

I would stand Weber DCOEs against anything including EFI for reliability. They are by far the most reliable component on my TR250 which has done 130,000 trouble-free miles on a set of very old 40DCOE18s sporting brass throttle shafts. They cost me $200 in 1996 for all (3). I was over the moon with joy once I went through a few iterations with jets, chokes etc. on a stock engine with only Kent TH2 cam and head shave.

In my humble opinion any other deviation from original equipment degrades the value of these cars ( monetary, that is ).

Precious little power gain is to be had with EFI over these when properly jetted. On the occasion of TRIUMPH's 50 year anniversary a Webered TR5 beat (2) EFI'd TR6s at Mid-Ohio racetrack, the latter of which claimed to have 260 BHP.

Which ones to use: -18s, -2s or -151s. These will all be calibrated the same for a given application except the -151s have plastic floats requiring a different setting.

One of a kind EFI systems on TR6s abound, many understood only by their fitters. Webers are known world wide and offer vintage cachet in keeping with the period the cars were built, unsurpassed reliability and tremendous satisfaction when dialed in. 

I continue to suggest that had TRIUMPH fitted Weber DCOEs to the non-US market cars the whole lot would be worth 2-3X what they fetch today. 

They don't look too shabby either.

 

Tom

TRIALS concours engine bay.jpg

BL did trial them but senior management stopped the trials in 1972/73! The idea was to fit them for all markets as Lucas PI was seen to be not reliable enough on the home market cars and their was politics not to use Bosch Injection, even though they kept knocking on the door of BL.  As they their system already working on a 2.5 saloon!

Bruce.

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You can have the looks but with a lot less hassle. 

EngRHS.jpg

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They are not rocket science as the man said work out your base settings and your on your way, then rr with someone who has the different jets if needed or buy various yourself and road test till you are about right then fine tune fit and forget they very rare go wrong for mega miles.

edit and they never come out the box ready to go right 

Edited by ntc
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As has been alluded to, if I had the budget available for a set of Webers, I'd go for an EFI conversion. But each to their own.

My budget was tight, so my own ex-US '6 ended up with a pair of HS6s on a long branch inlet manifold, plus a skimmed head, hotter cam, 6-2-1 exhaust manifold and 2.25in straight through exhaust system. Very happy with the resulting performance given how (relatively) little it cost me to gather the components :)

Matt

Edited by matt george
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30 minutes ago, ntc said:

They are not rocket science as the man said work out your base settings and your on your way, then rr with someone who has the different jets if needed or buy various yourself and road test till you are about right then fine tune fit and forget they very rare go wrong for mega miles.

edit and they never come out the box ready to go right 

Fit one of these and you have your own rolling road https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UEGO-Air-Fuel-Ratio-AFR-Controller-Wideband-KIT-Bosch-LSU-4-9-Probe-With-Gauge/123931924568?hash=item1cdaeb1858:g:kvIAAOSwljFdudEy

Stuart.

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9 hours ago, iani said:

You can have the looks but with a lot less hassle. 

EngRHS.jpg

Iani,

What air filter are you using with that air box?

What is the small diameter reddy brown hose teeing off the servo vacuum pipe and curving back out of the picture towards the bulkhead area?

Dave McD

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50 minutes ago, Dave McDonald said:

Iani,

What air filter are you using with that air box?

What is the small diameter reddy brown hose teeing off the servo vacuum pipe and curving back out of the picture towards the bulkhead area?

Dave McD

The filter box is custom made by a TR owner Dave, it connects to the standard filter housing with a K&N in it,  the thin red tube goes to a MAP sensor fitted to the bulkhead.

Edited by iani
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1 hour ago, iani said:

The filter box is custom made by a TR owner Dave, it connects to the standard filter housing with a K&N in it,  the thin red tube goes to a MAP sensor fitted to the bulkhead.

Do you have any more pictures/details of that very interesting air box ?

Stan

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10 hours ago, foster461 said:

Do you have any more pictures/details of that very interesting air box ?

Stan

Have a look at this thread: 

 

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Just out of interest, any ideas on what is the likely conversion cost of going from original (CP) pi to efi, against original (CP) pi to 3xwebers? Assuming all parts to be supplied, fitted and rr setup by TR specialist (ie no DIY involved).....and ignoring running costs, residual value etc. 

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2 hours ago, WELLSY said:

Hi Stuart

Is this kit all you need to start fine tuning webers?  Perhaps with a laptop?

Simon

It will work to a data log but I just read the results off the gauge while on the road.

Stuart.

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10 minutes ago, stuart said:

It will work to a data log but I just read the results off the gauge while on the road.

Stuart.

Not for me Stuart , me old school road test under different loads all day long or rolling road.

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Just now, ntc said:

Not for me Stuart , me old school road test under different loads all day long or rolling road.

Thats what I said above, the gauge will tell you the AFR as you use it on the road, the data log part is just a record same as rolling road printout.

Stuart.

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14 minutes ago, stuart said:

Thats what I said above, the gauge will tell you the AFR as you use it on the road, the data log part is just a record same as rolling road printout.

Stuart.

Stuart

And your readings would be ? at what and where in the different ranges? I use DV as you know with the correct base settings in before, as he said to me bonnet off and you can see how it behaves under all conditions. But willing to learn? 

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