new2classics Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 I have recently inherited a TR4A and am a novice as far as classic cars are concerned. I’m aware that you can’t just run on unleaded fuel, but which additives should I be using? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, new2classics said: I’m aware that you can’t just run on unleaded fuel, Actually unless you are using the car for competition or revving the nuts off it, you probably can. TRs used normally on the road do not seem to suffer much from valve recession on straight unleaded. Welcome to the forum by the way - it would be useful to know your name..... Rob. Edited May 12, 2020 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Welcome. If I were you I’d run on the best grade unleaded you can get. Unless you do very high mileage you won’t suffer valve seat recession. Then if and when the head needs to come off you can consider having hardened valve seats installed. The reason I’m so anti-additive is the fumes they produce in the exhaust. They’ll give you a bad headache if your exhaust system isn’t fully gas tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Agree, no need for any additives. Depending on where you are Esso "super" grade fuel can contain zero ethanol, which is a good thing. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John R Flannery Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 I agree with Bob. There is all sorts off stuff on the web about recession and unleaded, and how it's a myth. I've been running unleaded as soon as it came out with no issues. The pure gasoline is known as recreation fuel here in the us. It acts like you expect gasoline to and does not rot your fuel lines like ethanol. https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Welcome to the forum and to the world of TRs. Lots to learn when you're new to classics, but the font of TR know-how on this forum is bottomless and some of the members on here are so (ahem) venerable they probably built the bloody things in Coventry, back in the day. So I hesitate to post on a technical topic but thought it might be useful to expand a little on the good advice already posted. Like the posters above, I don't use any additives. When leaded fuels were phased out back in the late 1990s there was a lot of botheration about the valve seat recession issue, enhanced (arguably) by some businesses using scare stories to promote snake oil additives. Fortunately in the real world the problem turns out to be pretty minor, as noted above, at least on TRs. I have read that BMC engines have more of an issue but others will verify or correct me. Like a lot of people I use a super premium fuel eg Shell V-Power or Tesco Momentum (both 99 RON) but that's really just because it's available and in fact my car at a stage two tune will run quite happily on standard unleaded (95 RON), and overseas I've even run through a couple of tankfuls of 92 RON which it certainly didn't enjoy much but it shows that it's quite feasible even without retarding the ignition. (There is plenty of debate and discussion about fuel types and brand however, and this is slightly off topic from your original question I know). Anyway, the TR 4-pot engine is a tough old lump and I hope that reassures you. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) +1 for the do nothing party above. But do watch the valve gaps and do somethinmg if they start closing up! Edited May 12, 2020 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Forey Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Welcome to the forum and the club if you have joined. If not, then the club can enhance your ownership experience as we normally have loads of social, competitive and fun things going on. We have 53 local groups around the country and associated clubs in most countries around the TR world. Have a good look around the website and see where the nearest group is to you. http://www.tr-register.co.uk/groups. The only additive I do use is an ethanol stabiliser and then only for the winter hibernation. It stops the gum deposit in the tank, fuel lines, pump and carbs from the ethanol absorbing water. I have used this one: https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corrosion-inhibitor-additive-ethanol-protection/. If you are using the car regularly then no additive is needed. Why not introduce yourself and tells us a little bit about the car and yourself. Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 Yes a warm welcome. If you can, get a long to your local group meeting, tell us where you are and we'll give you the gen. Lots of more help and perhaps some hands on, explanations of things. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 No additives. If the car hasn’t had hardened exhaust valve seats fitted the seats will recess eventually. It probably isn’t worth using additives to delay this. Partly this is about limited evidence of effectiveness but also the cost is better put aside for having the valve seats done when they fail. Check receipts as it may have been done already. In days gone by an unleaded conversion was a selling point but leaded fuel has been gone for a long time now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
new2classics Posted May 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Thanks so much for the welcomes and advice! I have joined the Wessex group, but unfortunately have only been able to attend one meeting due to the lockdown. I inherited the car from my late brother in law who I’m sure told me ordinary unleaded was fine. The car hadn’t been used for 9 months . I put 15 litres of fresh unleaded in it and went for a short 10 mile drive a few weeks ago. It was running really well, but started spluttering over the last mile, conked out in the driveway and I ended up having to push it into the garage! I started it up last week and it seemed fine again, though I did not take it on the road this time. I have the car booked in for a service at a local garage who specialise in classics. I spoke to them about the problem and they strongly advised me to use additives, which seemed to conflict with what my brother in law had told me, hence the request for advice. Thank you all very much for clearing up my dilemma! I will be driving it 3 miles to it’s service next week, wish me luck! Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Those symptoms don't indicate a need for additives, or at least not lead substitute. Perhaps the car lay unused for a while, if your B-in-Law was ill for any time? Your 15 litres of will have refreshed the usual deterioration of fuel with time of modern lead free, alcohol containing fuel, but may have allowed some corrosion in the tank with particles in the fuel lines or carburettors. Or, 'varnish' in the carbs, residue of evaporated fuel. For the last, a dose of Fuel injector cleaner in the tank might help, and for the second,a filter in the fuel line from the tank. A transparent one will allow you to see any contamination. eg https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/fuel-filter-glass-chrome-with-6mm-hose-tails?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2PP1BRCiARIsAEqv-pTl-NTZUF2BlE9ceDZsYZImZGTMb8siBmvmZjzwZzo-TzKsLe0eXX0aApfyEALw_wcB John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Have a look at the glass bowl alongside the fuel pump - if there's a lot of debris at the bottom, this could be the cause of the car conking out in your driveway. The tank can shed particles of rust etc, and these are carried to the glass bowl. They settle there when the engine is stationary, but in use get carried upwards and block the gauze filter which is above the bowl. When the engine splutters to a halt, the debris drops to the bottom of the bowl After a short rest, the car can be re-started and will tick over, but the debris is ready to block the filter as the fuel flow increases on the next run! If evidence of debris, release the bowl (circular clamp beneath) and remove bowl and filter. Clean and replace, then keep an eye on the bowl for evidence of more debris being transferred from the tank. If it's obvious that the tank is going to continue to shed debris, one can remove the tank and apply Slosh Tank Sealant to the inside - see my article in Section K3 of the Technicalities CD (all new members should receive a copy, but it is available from the TR Register's on-line shop). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Welcome! I'm another that runs Triumphs on unleaded without additives. If/when I need to strip an engine, I get hardened exhaust valve seats fitted as recommended for unleaded, but it's not worth stripping an engine, or at least removing the cylinder head just to do that. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Hi and another welcome to the forum - looking at your symptoms, I would tend to agree with others who reckon it could be fuel blockage or partial blockage caused by debris/rust in the tank - you should be able to see if there is any debris in the glass bowl on the fuel pump and well worth cleaning out in any event, come what may. If there is evidence of debris in the glass bowl, then a have a careful look inside the fuel tank to see what it's inside is like - if it's an original steel tank, then it wouldn't be surprising if it's pretty rusty inside. You can try and deal with this by removing the tank and slosh tank sealing it, as suggester by Ian, but this is a time consuming exercise, is not that cheap as a product, and unless very carefully done, then there is a risk of the coating coming off and causing even more mayhem in your fuel/carburettor system. For the sake of a relatively modest outlay, a new tank would be a no brainer if the existing one looks dodgy - if so, I can probably help you - have sent you a PM ( personal message) which you will find in your forum mailbox which is the envelope icon in the top right hand corner of the forum posts page - if you have an unread message in it, there will be a small red flag next to the icon. Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 In July 1997, my TR4 conked out 6 times on the way from Tring to the International Weekend at Shepton Mallet. Neil correctly diagnosed the problem and, on returning home, I removed the tank, used Slosh Tank Sealant from Moss, and re-installed the tank the following month. The article which I mentioned describes what I did. Fortunately, the tank was in good condition and the shedding was confined to the inside. Had it showed signs of leakage, I would have had it welded because it is a Works' special, with an extra 6 gallons capacity, so I would never have changed it. It's almost 23 years since then, and I'm glad to say that the sloshing has stood the test of time, so I think that if conscientiously undertaken (and it was hard work shaking the tank about for a fellow as small as me!), then Rich's concerns about the coating coming off are, perhaps, somewhat pessimistic. The Sloshing process has been improved since 1997 - then it was just a single treatment, but it later became a 3-stage process. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 52 minutes ago, ianc said: In July 1997, my TR4 conked out 6 times on the way from Tring to the International Weekend at Shepton Mallet. Neil correctly diagnosed the problem and, on returning home, I removed the tank, used Slosh Tank Sealant from Moss, and re-installed the tank the following month. The article which I mentioned describes what I did. Fortunately, the tank was in good condition and the shedding was confined to the inside. Had it showed signs of leakage, I would have had it welded because it is a Works' special, with an extra 6 gallons capacity, so I would never have changed it. It's almost 23 years since then, and I'm glad to say that the sloshing has stood the test of time, so I think that if conscientiously undertaken (and it was hard work shaking the tank about for a fellow as small as me!), then Rich's concerns about the coating coming off are, perhaps, somewhat pessimistic. The Sloshing process has been improved since 1997 - then it was just a single treatment, but it later became a 3-stage process. Ian Cornish Since lock-down started I slosh daily. It started as a single treatment (around 6pm) but seems to be getting towards a 3-stage process... Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Read Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 21 hours ago, Bleednipple said: Since lock-down started I slosh daily. It started as a single treatment (around 6pm) but seems to be getting towards a 3-stage process... Nigel Make sure its 70% alcohol, any thing weaker will not work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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