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I am engaged in the second restoration of my TR3 steel hardtop. It has never had a headlining (and the steel band is missing).

Does anyone know where I could find exactly how to fit a new lining as Triumph intended?  - how is it retained at the front and particularly, the sides.I believe mine is an early one although I'm also not clear what the differences are between an early and late model.

Thanks,

Mike

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Hi Iain, Thought I'd send you a few photos so you can see how things are progressing so far. As you can see from the attached photos the headlining fitted all in one piece except for a narro

I am engaged in the second restoration of my TR3 steel hardtop. It has never had a headlining (and the steel band is missing). Does anyone know where I could find exactly how to fit a new lining

Now that, Sir, is what I call a very good job. Got another one here for you to do - if you are motivated james

Posted Images

Should you find two ‘steel bands’ I’ll take the second one. Mine went AWOL some years ago.
I glued my lining to the hardtop, big mistake, as either I used the wrong glue or the wrong material - or both, because the traces of all the stick are tooooo apparent.

As to the sides/edges I made such a sow’s ear of it all that I am unable to advise. 
Fortunately, I very rarely put the lid on the car so it has never bothered me much.
But it don’t alf take up storage space....

james

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15 hours ago, james christie said:

Should you find two ‘steel bands’ I’ll take the second one. Mine went AWOL some years ago.
I glued my lining to the hardtop, big mistake, as either I used the wrong glue or the wrong material - or both, because the traces of all the stick are tooooo apparent.

As to the sides/edges I made such a sow’s ear of it all that I am unable to advise. 
Fortunately, I very rarely put the lid on the car so it has never bothered me much.
But it don’t alf take up storage space....

james

Thanks James, I also tried the adhesive lining as sold for boats/caravans. Looked great for about a year then didn't as the HT gets very hot in the sun and it all started to creep. Not being flat causes stress I suppose.  One option is plan A - do a better bob of the paint inside and leave it as we also don't use it very often, it is noisy though. Obviously it will start raining once lock-down is over so need to be ready.

Not sure if the steel band(s) get sewn into the lining or are just there to stop drumming.  I also need the lining to not rest on the roll-over bar, some "original" linings seem to sag. Mike 

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I recall - from some 30 years ago - that the steel band was neatly inserted into a furrow sown into the  headlining and held the whole thing thing in place because the ends of the rather springy steel strip were jammed into either side of the hard top.

Thanks to condensation and thus rust the whole had rotted away.

But how the edges of the headlining were held I cannot tell.

Driving a TR without the headlining is bit like sitting in a snare drum!

james

 

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Mike

i added my experience of trying to sort my hardtop. 
the headlining rails that were fitted to mine I was reliably informed are TR4 roof rails. Slightly differing lengths with flattened ends with self tapper screws worked for me.

headlining sewed with rail pockets to tension it all then the headlining was contact adhesive to all the edges and aperture inc the rear window to do final tension.

don't do it my way if you want concours originality. But it works for me so far.

 

3BF8E2F8-58BF-4D0C-A42B-615E0C3DF832.jpeg

0235D115-CE1F-4F44-A3F1-715FBC413BF0.jpeg

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Hamish, brilliant photos thanks, There are no holes in the two side skirts (for screws) but the concept of 3 X-rails would solve my concerns about sag.

Another option I saw today in a kit from the US covers the x-rail with matching material and fits below the head lining - but theirs looks fairly stiff material. Such a concept applied to your types of rails may also work. Food for thought, still some welding to complete, had to replace both side drains, scary stuff cutting the old ones out!.

Thanks for the post,

Mike

 

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Originally they were trimmed in Union Woolcloth, glued to the inside. 
The metal bar is  spring steel that is separately covered in Union woolcloth and when you feel like loosing your fingers you bow it down into the car and insert  the two ends into the gap above the door aperture/ internal frame and the shell of the roof  You then push the bar up in the middle ensuring you keep your pinkies our the way as the spring steel goes in with a hell of a thump. It is there to stop reasonance as much as anything and is certainly effective.....well a lot more effective than not having one.

I’ll  post some photos tomorrow.

Iain

Edited by iain
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I had my hard top standing against the wall in the shed for about 9 months. The front side ends moved out about 1" on each side.  Now I keep it in the same place but with a carpenters frame cramp making sure it does not put on any weight by not taking exercise.

I have only one rail and it is not very springy, maybe a bit old.

Richard & B.

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Thanks all, clarity emerging. Look forward to photos especially any that show where the Woolcloth is seamed, this will help making a pattern. I gather there is just one finger snapping steel band but I assume that two would be OK, one above my Alley Bar. Also assume the Woolcloth is only glued at the edges. Should get the welding completed today....

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These should give you an idea.

The Woolcloth is stuck all over on the inside of the shell and tucked behind the sidescreen aperture reinforcing pieces. In-fact the Sprung bar on a spare I had was packed at each end with rolled up Woolcloth that acted as a very good sponge...causing a bit of rot. 

As you can see the bar has a rib in the middle to give it extra finger breaking power!

The seams are my interpretation of what might have happened, I could not buy cloth wide enough to do the whole top in one piece.

The adhesive I used was image.png.6fe6f70e96dbea977ca5925b28c58834.png

The cloth was Union Headlining image.png.2ea2a4e68587c9ce23fbad1e7f0727b2.png

Both from Woolies Trimming.

IMG_1131 - Copy.jpg

IMG_1132.jpg

IMG_1957.jpg

Edited by iain
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Now that, Sir, is what I call a very good job. Got another one here for you to do - if you are motivated

james

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/11/2020 at 2:42 PM, iain said:

These should give you an idea.

The Woolcloth is stuck all over on the inside of the shell and tucked behind the sidescreen aperture reinforcing pieces. In-fact the Sprung bar on a spare I had was packed at each end with rolled up Woolcloth that acted as a very good sponge...causing a bit of rot. 

As you can see the bar has a rib in the middle to give it extra finger breaking power!

The seams are my interpretation of what might have happened, I could not buy cloth wide enough to do the whole top in one piece.

The adhesive I used was image.png.6fe6f70e96dbea977ca5925b28c58834.png

The cloth was Union Headlining image.png.2ea2a4e68587c9ce23fbad1e7f0727b2.png

Both from Woolies Trimming.

IMG_1131 - Copy.jpg

IMG_1132.jpg

IMG_1957.jpg

 

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Thanks Iain, very helpful interior pictures. So, stuck in all over - that does seem the best solution as, like you, I have a roll bar to clear.

Looking at the first picture facing forward, there seems to be an (aluminium?) strip between the the three windscreen bolt heads and the triangular flange, I dont have such a part and it is not visible on the later photo of the front fixing.Is it part of the visor mounting?

Brilliant, I'm at the pre-primer profiling stage now so great timing, thanks.

Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...

Iain,

I've been following this thread for some while now. It's an excellent write up, especially with the photos you've provided. They have already proved useful in the restoration of my hardtop.. So far the bare shell has been blasted and resprayed, so it's now ready to be fitted out with the various seals and the dreaded backlight!

Before I order the parts for this I have a few questions which I'd be very grateful if you could answer:

1. How much Union Woolcloth is required to make up the headliner. I plan to order this and the adhesive from Woolies.

2. The seal kit that Stuart recommends for the rear screen comes from a supplier in Seattle, USA. With current exchange rates the cost of this including shipping is approx. £85 plus, of course, the uncertainties of delivery during Covid-19. Is it worth paying the extra when the usuals in the UK supply the  same at around £20? If the difference is having to buy another screen when the new one blows once fitted, maybe yes?).

3. Moss are currently out of stock of the perspex rear window. Rimmers still have stock. Do you know if they the same quality/size?

Thank you in anticipation.

All the best,

JeffR

 

 

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49 minutes ago, JeffR said:

Iain,

I've been following this thread for some while now. It's an excellent write up, especially with the photos you've provided. They have already proved useful in the restoration of my hardtop.. So far the bare shell has been blasted and resprayed, so it's now ready to be fitted out with the various seals and the dreaded backlight!

Before I order the parts for this I have a few questions which I'd be very grateful if you could answer:

1. How much Union Woolcloth is required to make up the headliner. I plan to order this and the adhesive from Woolies.

2. The seal kit that Stuart recommends for the rear screen comes from a supplier in Seattle, USA. With current exchange rates the cost of this including shipping is approx. £85 plus, of course, the uncertainties of delivery during Covid-19. Is it worth paying the extra when the usuals in the UK supply the  same at around £20? If the difference is having to buy another screen when the new one blows once fitted, maybe yes?).

3. Moss are currently out of stock of the perspex rear window. Rimmers still have stock. Do you know if they the same quality/size?

Thank you in anticipation.

All the best,

JeffR

 

 

The seal kit is worth the extra and Im not convinced of the wisdom of buying anything from Rimmers any more.

Stuart.

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+1 

Jeff I’ll check my records when home later. The seal is available in the UK. Again I’ll find the details this evening

Iain

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40 minutes ago, iain said:

+1 

Jeff I’ll check my records when home later. The seal is available in the UK. Again I’ll find the details this evening

Iain

Thanks Iain, much appreciated.

Cheers,

 

JeffR

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Hi Jeff

i can’t find the order from Woolies  but I used  the standard width 48” ? and 1.5m..........it was very tight on that length. If doing again I would order 2m! The width will allow you to run the roll from front edge to back, but you have to join on the rear pillars as you run out of roll width. 

This thread has the trim rubbers and rear window seal in one of my posts. Phoenix trim. It’s identical to the American seal. I bought an American one and then needed another for a different project.You will need the tool to fit properly. I loaned this to Hamish when he was doing his and would do the same for yourself if you need it.

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=30108

Pm your number if you would like to discuss

 

Iain

Edited by iain
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Hi Jeff,

My order from Woolies arrived today! I made paper templates, joined in three places, top and both sides. held them in place with magnets and then cut around to suit the steel. having removed them they were laid out and measured. We concluded the 1.5m was too close for comfort and bought 2m.. I need a bit of spare cloth to experiment with the glue, helpful person at Woolies warned of using too much.

i am only at the surfacer-primer stage so it will be a couple of weeks at least before fitting the lining.

Not sure what to make the noise damper strip from, would stainless steel be ok or does it have to be a spring steel....I would also like to copy the profiled part in Ian's most helpful photos.

Currently putting very runny resin into the valleys at the bottom of the side pieces and the rear frame. This takes 2 days to cure and seeps into the spot welded seams. I was advised to do this as it is impossible to de-rust and paint in these sections. It leaves a shiny finish which can be painted where visible.. 

exciting eh?!

Mike

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, mikej said:

Hi Jeff,

My order from Woolies arrived today! I made paper templates, joined in three places, top and both sides. held them in place with magnets and then cut around to suit the steel. having removed them they were laid out and measured. We concluded the 1.5m was too close for comfort and bought 2m.. I need a bit of spare cloth to experiment with the glue, helpful person at Woolies warned of using too much.

i am only at the surfacer-primer stage so it will be a couple of weeks at least before fitting the lining.

Not sure what to make the noise damper strip from, would stainless steel be ok or does it have to be a spring steel....I would also like to copy the profiled part in Ian's most helpful photos.

Currently putting very runny resin into the valleys at the bottom of the side pieces and the rear frame. This takes 2 days to cure and seeps into the spot welded seams. I was advised to do this as it is impossible to de-rust and paint in these sections. It leaves a shiny finish which can be painted where visible.. 

exciting eh?!

Mike

 

 

 

I would suggest spring steel.......it goes in with a real finger breaking thwack! I hope you can see the rib in the centre as well, I’m sure that also improves the anti drumming properties by adding extra rigidity.These bars do make a big difference to noise levels.
Iain

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On 6/3/2020 at 8:08 PM, iain said:

Hi Jeff

i can’t find the order from Woolies  but I used  the standard width 48” ? and 1.5m..........it was very tight on that length. If doing again I would order 2m! The width will allow you to run the roll from front edge to back, but you have to join on the rear pillars as you run out of roll width. 

This thread has the trim rubbers and rear window seal in one of my posts. Phoenix trim. It’s identical to the American seal. I bought an American one and then needed another for a different project.You will need the tool to fit properly. I loaned this to Hamish when he was doing his and would do the same for yourself if you need it.

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=30108 1.44 MB · 61 downloads

Pm your number if you would like to discuss

 

Iain

Hi Iain,

I've been quiet for the past week or so as I've been finishing off a few other projects on the car while I awaited the arrival of the new rubber seals and materials etc. for the hardtop.

Everything is now to hand so I'm about to start into the retrimming of the hardtop - I must say with some trepidation!

The rubber seals from Pheonix are excellent - much beefier, grippier and substantially less costly than those supplied by Moss (which I've since returned to them for a refund). The front seal came from Revingtons.

Before I begin I still have a few questions:

1. The front edge of my hardtop, where the seal fits, doesn't appear to have any signs of having scew holes in it. It may be that these were covered by contour filler when the hardtop was prep'd for respray but feeling along the inside edge of the lip doesn't give any indication of there ever having been screw holes present. I'll need to take a closer look. Is it possible to fix the seal in place just using 3M weatherseal adhesive?

2. The three brackets that the front edge of the hardtop screws into need to be screwed to the top edge of the windscreen. The holes for these are already present from its days as a rally car and I have the original brackets. I plan to leave the existing wide rubber strip on the top of the windcreen and just cut out a small portion of the rubber seal where it folds under the screen surround - just enough to allow the top edge of each bracket to fit flush under the winsdscreen frame. Is that how it is usually done?

3. My greatest concern is fitting the headlining. The plan is to make a template in order to shape the material to an approximate size and shape but to leave enough excess for final trimming. Then to start from the front edge of the hardtop and gradually carry on down the hardtop glueing as I go. I ordered 2m of material so I'm wondering if the cloth is fitted side on to the hardtop whether their would be sufficient material to do the two sections by the B posts in one go to avoid any seams? The cloth is 1.5m wide and the front to back measurement for the hardtop is 1.25m.

4. Finally, if you could loan me your tool for fixing the insert into the back screen surround that would be much appreciated.

Hopefully, these are all the questions remaining!

All the best,

JEFF

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