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Surrey top conversion TR4A


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One small point that hasn't been mentioned about the original "tuck in" front fixing arrangement is that it is much easier to store the surrey fabric in the boot, useful when boot and rear bench space may be at a premium on long tours.

Incidentally wind noise can be greatly reduced by feeding a length of small section glazing gasket under the lip, removing in seconds when you need to do the tuck.

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Horses for courses! The Surrey top fits very neatly in the back of the boot.Ā  Rolled up It doesn't take up much more room than the frame anyway and does feel very secure when fitted. AsĀ  I do not intend to do any long tours with my car it's fine for me.

However with this upgrade by using the originalĀ  4A Ā soft top parts, windscreen, capping and rail, for anyĀ future ownerĀ if stowage isĀ a concern, then a replacement Surrey top windscreen capping and a standard Surrey top would return it to original styleĀ  fitting

CheersĀ 

Rich

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I seem to remember someone used a couple of straps fixed to the inside of the bootlid frame to take a rolled up Surrey with frame inside.

Stuart.

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  • 4 months later...

So after much research and looking at the various approaches taken, I opted for the Revington modification to the TR4a windscreen frame to provide indented locking cams for a Spitfire soft-top frame bar. The Moss 4a Surrey frame was modified with the fwd tubes being shortened and then tapped to M10 both ends (pinched from Damson6 - thank you!), a length of 10mm studding connects the 2 parts. I had to the change the angle of the flattened ends of the frame legs slightly and also flattened the outer 'ear' of the Spitfire header rail to give a better location for the pins on the end of the Surrey frame legs. I also used the hard rubber bushes from the 4a arrangement to fit to the pins and locate in the header rail ears. The added benefit is that I now have adjustment at the front and back of the frame :)

David

modified frame2.JPG

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15 hours ago, qkingston said:

So after much research and looking at the various approaches taken, I opted for the Revington modification to the TR4a windscreen frame to provide indented locking cams for a Spitfire soft-top frame bar. The Moss 4a Surrey frame was modified with the fwd tubes being shortened and then tapped to M10 both ends (pinched from Damson6 - thank you!), a length of 10mm studding connects the 2 parts. I had to the change the angle of the flattened ends of the frame legs slightly and also flattened the outer 'ear' of the Spitfire header rail to give a better location for the pins on the end of the Surrey frame legs. I also used the hard rubber bushes from the 4a arrangement to fit to the pins and locate in the header rail ears. The added benefit is that I now have adjustment at the front and back of the frame :)

David

modified frame2.JPG

I think you may find you`ll struggle to engage the header rail with the frame with that sort of fixing at the front once you have the fabric attached to the header rail, the idea of the "Z" engagement with the Revington frame is so you just turn the header down around and engage with the frame which is already adjusted to suit otherwise there will be a lot of faffing about which isnt good when its come into rain heavily.

Stuart.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi picking my through this thread as Iā€™m at the same point, but my question is does the door seal fall outside the Surrey Windscreen Capping? Looking at Tom Frremonts pic it does. But when the Top Cover isnā€™t on do we just leave the seal edge showing or is there a way of finishing it? My pics below. Thanks

Ian

B17F3385-77F8-4769-917A-B08F91DD7BD9.jpeg

C3405AB0-9E12-43C3-ACC8-C1DBA8B34C45.jpeg

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Hi Ian,

Sadly you should have left the seal protruding at the top, the surplusĀ Ā can then be squashed under the capping above the seal when it's popped riveted down to make a neat finish.

SorryĀ :wacko:

Rich

Ā 

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Hi Rich,

very interesting to see the elastic on your photos from Sept. 2020

which Stuart indicated on another post about the original TR4A soft top!

Looks like same-same, thank you for that photo.

Marco

Edited by Z320
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12 hours ago, rvwp said:

Hi Ian,

Sadly you should have left the seal protruding at the top, the surplusĀ Ā can then be squashed under the capping above the seal when it's popped riveted down to make a neat finish.

SorryĀ :wacko:

Rich

Ā 

Itā€™s ok Rich I can still do that, the angle of the pic does quite show the seal protruding above the screen frame, and the pic with the cappingĀ on, the capping isnā€™t fully down, just sat on.

However if I tuck the seal under the capping it pulls it away from the glass at the top.

Ian

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13 hours ago, meesonia said:

Itā€™s ok Rich I can still do that, the angle of the pic does quite show the seal protruding above the screen frame, and the pic with the cappingĀ on, the capping isnā€™t fully down, just sat on.

However if I tuck the seal under the capping it pulls it away from the glass at the top.

Ian

You need to slit the top of the rubber so the bit that is in the channel goes up under the capping but the flap then continues up to meet the roof (If fitted) thus getting over the gap.

Stuart.

C3405AB0-9E12-43C3-ACC8-C1DBA8B34C45.jpeg.82c14d1a3b95143e9fc6e19414e57432.jpeg

Edited by stuart
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  • 11 months later...

Not having the benefit of an original screen capping for my 4a Surrey conversion, I realise there should be a popper stud at the front edges; have others just fitted an additional popper stud directly onto the screen frame at the top corner? Also when fitting the new Surrey top, how best to stretch the material to get a good tight fit, some gentle warming? How best to do this?

Many thanks

David

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11 hours ago, qkingston said:

Not having the benefit of an original screen capping for my 4a Surrey conversion, I realise there should be a popper stud at the front edges; have others just fitted an additional popper stud directly onto the screen frame at the top corner? Also when fitting the new Surrey top, how best to stretch the material to get a good tight fit, some gentle warming? How best to do this?

Many thanks

David

What capping are you using then? Even the repro Surrey type have a hole on the end for a popper, theres not quite as much of an "ear" as the original but it will do for a location for a popper. I use a fan heater sat facing upwards between the two seats and drape the material across the frame to warm it up enough to stretch.

Stuart.

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23 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi David,

Little Jim,Down Under; related a story to stretch his fabric.

He hung it on the washing line in the blazing Oz sunshine and tied a couple of Koalas to the bottom to pull it down.

Ā 

Roger

Thanks Roger, I'll see what I can do. Do you think small dogs might do the trick?

David

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11 hours ago, stuart said:

What capping are you using then? Even the repro Surrey type have a hole on the end for a popper, theres not quite as much of an "ear" as the original but it will do for a location for a popper. I use a fan heater sat facing upwards between the two seats and drape the material across the frame to warm it up enough to stretch.

Stuart.

Hi Stuart, It's the TR6 capping as I modified my screen top to take the cam locks of a 6 header rail

David

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4 hours ago, qkingston said:

Hi Stuart, It's the TR6 capping as I modified my screen top to take the cam locks of a 6 header rail

David

Then you shouldnt need the two studs as the soft top material should finish over the header rail the same as if it was finished for a soft top car.

Sturt

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So I have the Surrey pretty much fitted - phots to followĀ (header rail conversion) has anyone got a phot of where the centre side popper goes on the soft top above the window; how high up/low down does it go? I've seen some phots with the popper on the hood section, others at the top of the flap below the hood, which is correct?

Many thanks

David

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  • 2 months later...
On 5/17/2020 at 8:59 AM, rvwp said:

Hi Guys,

At last I've come to decision on how to convert my TR4A from a Soft top to a Surry.

I have read many comments of the attachment of the front of the Surry top at the front using the original Triumph 'tuck under' method which seems to be problematic. (sorry Roger)

Having looked at the TR5/6 hood front rail method which also requires an upgrade to a TR5/6 windscreen and capping, all getting expensive!Ā 

However, taking note ofĀ  Stuart's concern over the way the TR4A centre work and would not pull the rail down in the same way as the TR5/6 1/4 turn clamps, I shall still use the TR4A front rail with modifications.

My method is to useĀ  TR4A rail combined with Stuart'sĀ  'Z' brackets on the end of theĀ  H frame sticks. After locating the rail by angling up at 60 degrees, as suggested, then locating the rail with the catches, two bolts are then entered through the existing hardtop fixing holes in the frame to lock down the rail securely in a similar way to the TR4/5 catches.

To provide this facility a hole has to be drilled in the TR4A rail in line with these hardtop fixing holes, say 5/16, (M8) and a nut welded to the inside of the rail. This has to be positioned carefully so that when feeding the bolt through the frame it locates this nut. I intend using a SS threaded bolt made up with a SS wing nut for ease of use. Both available cheaply from Toolstation (M8). The end of the bolt will have a turned down portion at the end to aid entry into the nut.

The cost of this modification if you have a TR4A soft top rail is only the cost of the SS bolt and nut. Of course you may have to buy a new fabric Surry top if you cannot unpick the front to provide material to fold around the head rail. I have to buy one anyway.

Trials on the bench with myĀ  TR4A windscreen is very positive and it does work. I don't believe that the time to put the Surry top up using this method will differ at all from using the TR4/5 rail. In any case using either method if caught in a sudden downpour means you are going to get wet!

Any comments?

Rich

Ā 

Very informative Rich and just what i was looking for. I bought my 4a a few months ago and it has been with a mechanic since then. It is almost ready and i am just waiting for the backlight to be re-sprayed and for the glass to be re-fitted with new rubbers. Once i have the car (very soon i hope) my first job is to fit a soft top. I have quotes from all of the providers and looking at the exploded image from Moss i think i understand where the locating pins go on the backlight (62) and on the capper (59). However my capper doesnā€™t seem to have fittings on the ends for the stud and screw (68 & 69). Ā 

My car was imported to Spain from the UK in 1976 and converted to LHD. So i am not sure if the capper is actually an original 4a or a later model. Some of the elements on the dash are TR6 so not sure if this is also TR6?

I am a tin-basher by trade so i need to take the capper off anyways for a bit of titivation and try and polish it up. If i can manage to tidy it up i will of course keep this original one and attempt to follow your example:

My method is to useĀ  TR4A rail combined with Stuart'sĀ  'Z' brackets on the end of theĀ  H frame sticks. After locating the rail by angling up at 60 degrees, as suggested, then locating the rail with the catches, two bolts are then entered through the existing hardtop fixing holes in the frame to lock down the rail securely in a similar way to the TR4/5 catches.

Would anyone by any chance have a more detailed step by step description/photos for a novice like myself? Many thanks, Richard

TR4a surrey sof top.jpg

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20220512_095631.jpg

20220512_095636.jpg

20220512_095904.jpg

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