Lucas 1971 Altenrator repair or not

[PodOne]

Evening all

Just going through my boxes of bits and found the Lucas alternator (original?) which needs a service/testing. No way to test it now as two of the case bolts were sheared off  but before I do as usual I have a few questions;

The Tag reads 23636A 15ACR 12v 1971

1) What output is this and is it original spec? The date suggests it has been replaced I intend using a new loom from Autosparks and fit a radio, Bosch pump, Halogen lights and keep the ammeter so will this unit cope if I can rebuild it can it be uprated to increase the amps.

2) When I have stripped it down I need the following;

           a) Three of the long case bolts as all now sheared and needed drilling out/tapping; anyone know the size or have some kicking around they don't want?

           b) Bearings both gritty; anyone know the sizes 

           c) Brushes/black plastic diode block

Anyone know if there is a service pack?

3)If its not worth bothering with what unit should I go for?

I'd like to save it if I can given its taken best part of the afternoon to strip!

Thanks all

Andy

 

[astontr6]

3 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Evening all

Just going through my boxes of bits and found the Lucas alternator (original?) which needs a service/testing. No way to test it now as two of the case bolts were sheared off  but before I do as usual I have a few questions;

The Tag reads 23636A 15ACR 12v 1971

1) What output is this and is it original spec? The date suggests it has been replaced I intend using a new loom from Autosparks and fit a radio, Bosch pump, Halogen lights and keep the ammeter so will this unit cope if I can rebuild it can it be uprated to increase the amps.

2) When I have stripped it down I need the following;

           a) Three of the long case bolts as all now sheared and needed drilling out/tapping; anyone know the size or have some kicking around they don't want?

           b) Bearings both gritty; anyone know the sizes 

           c) Brushes/black plastic diode block

Anyone know if there is a service pack?

3)If its not worth bothering with what unit should I go for?

I'd like to save it if I can given its taken best part of the afternoon to strip!

Thanks all

Andy

 

The 15 ACR alternator was not much better than its predecessor the C40 dynamo. If you are going to replace your 15 ACR approx. 27 amps, go for a 18 ACR rated at 45 amps, it is a straight replacement fit, no mods. This  Spec. alternator was used on the USA models. I Speced this alternator in on my TR when I bought it new.

[RobH]

Agree with that. 15 ACR  really isn't worth fixing. 18ACR is fine.

47 minutes ago, PodOne said:

and keep the ammeter

See the other thread running. https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/72690-tr5-new-loom-and-ammeter/&tab=comments#comment-669922 You need to tell them the loom MUST have ammeter wiring otherwise they will provide one without the relevant connections. . 

 

[PodOne]

Thanks Aston and Rob for the info 18ACR 45 Amp it is. Presume the new loom would be up to it.

Who sells the best one or are they all made in China as usual. Prefer a UK manufactured unit if there is such a thing now.

Andy

[RobH]

If you specify the loom is for an alternator with ammeter it should be the right spec Andy.

I think you will find all the new alternators are from China now - but I suggest you buy one from a reputable supplier, not some unknown on e-bay.  

I use Autoelectric supplies for electrical stuff and have always been satisfied with the quality but that is just personal choice, there are plenty of others of the same ilk. 

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product_list/168

[PodOne]

19 minutes ago, RobH said:

If you specify the loom is for an alternator with ammeter it should be the right spec Andy.

I think you will find all the new alternators are from China now - but I suggest you buy one from a reputable supplier, not some unknown on e-bay.  

I use Autoelectric supplies for electrical stuff and have always been satisfied with the quality but that is just personal choice, there are plenty of others of the same ilk. 

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product_list/168

Hi Rob

As it happens I was looking at their site a few minutes ago so thanks for confirming them as the place to go. They list a RH and a LH unit I presume I need the RH for a UK CP.

Andy

[RobH]

 

2 minutes ago, PodOne said:

presume I need the RH for a UK CP.

I think so but best look at the old one and check against the pictures just to make sure.

[Mike C]

I upgraded my old Lucas alternator to 45 amps. I had to replace the ammeter with a 60 amp VDO unit , the  original 1969 unit went off scale after starting-I don't know if this would damage the meter but I replaced it anyway.

[stuart]

10 hours ago, Mike C said:

I upgraded my old Lucas alternator to 45 amps. I had to replace the ammeter with a 60 amp VDO unit , the  original 1969 unit went off scale after starting-I don't know if this would damage the meter but I replaced it anyway.

Thats nothing to do with the larger output alternator that would have been because the battery must have been flat.

Stuart.

[Mike C]

45 minutes ago, stuart said:

Thats nothing to do with the larger output alternator that would have been because the battery must have been flat.

Stuart.

I need to crank the engine for a while if the car has been left unused for a few weeks- it's needed to reprime the PI system. This takes a bit out of the battery and works the charging system hard , the 45A converted Lucas alternator  ran the original +/- 30A ammeter off the scale for maybe half a minute or so.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mike C

[Casar66]

or buy an alternator-service-kit for small money. maybe its worth it.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Casar66

[RobH]

1 hour ago, Casar66 said:

maybe its worth it.

It isn't. Fix a broken weedy 15ACR and you still have a weedy 15ACR.  

[PodOne]

5 hours ago, RobH said:

It isn't. Fix a broken weedy 15ACR and you still have a weedy 15ACR.  

True but a nice video which shows a regulator next to the brush box.

The 15ACR I had didn't have one just a metal bracket so was the regulator separate on the early cars (can't think why it would be) or I'm thinking someone has been there before and removed it because it was faulty. If located else where; where? and do I need to tell Auto sparks to delete from the loom?

Thanks

Andy

[RobH]

There were early Lucas AC alternators (11AC) which had a separate regulator but it was a bit different in shape - there is no black plastic cover on the rear - and the connections were different. They were fitted to TR5 I believe.

 ACR types have the regulator inside as designated by the R. If yours definitely a 15 ACR then yes, someone has removed the regulator. 

If you tell Autosparks the loom is to fit an 18ACR they should provide the right connections.

 

 

 

[PodOne]

11 minutes ago, RobH said:

There were early Lucas AC alternators (11AC) which had a separate regulator but it was a bit different in shape - there is no black plastic cover on the rear - and the connections were different. They were fitted to TR5 I believe.

 ACR types have the regulator inside as designated by the R. If yours definitely a 15 ACR then yes, someone has removed the regulator. 

If you tell Autosparks the loom is to fit an 18ACR they should provide the right connections.

 

 

 

Thanks Rob definitely a ARC black plastic cover and a ali tag stamped 15ACR so I guess it was removed by the PO. Anyway it now toast and a 18ACR ordered. 

[iani]

27 minutes ago, RobH said:

There were early Lucas AC alternators (11AC) which had a separate regulator but it was a bit different in shape - there is no black plastic cover on the rear - and the connections were different. They were fitted to TR5 I believe.

 ACR types have the regulator inside as designated by the R. If yours definitely a 15 ACR then yes, someone has removed the regulator. 

If you tell Autosparks the loom is to fit an 18ACR they should provide the right connections.

 

 

 

The 11AC was also fitted to S1/S2 E-types, it comes with a commensurate price tag nowadays.

[stuart]

17 hours ago, iani said:

The 11AC was also fitted to S1/S2 E-types, it comes with a commensurate price tag nowadays.

Early Series one XJ6 as well.

Stuart.

[astontr6]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:44 PM, PodOne said:

Thanks Aston and Rob for the info 18ACR 45 Amp it is. Presume the new loom would be up to it.

Who sells the best one or are they all made in China as usual. Prefer a UK manufactured unit if there is such a thing now.

Andy

Go to a company called ATP, they indicate that they are UK made? You can buy direct and they also sell upgraded versions of the 18 ACR to 50 amps. I have not ever had an issue with the original wiring size on my 73 car. I have used an 18ACR for over 45 years on original loom. 

Bruce.

[Casar66]

I was in contact with a company called APD from Bloxwich in the west-Midlands (https://www.ebay.de/usr/apdtechnologies?ul_noapp=true) They sell uprated 18 ACR new ones from China or reconditioned originals. Both for a more than a  reasonable prize. 

[astontr6]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:48 PM, astontr6 said:

Go to a company called ATP, they indicate that they are UK made? You can buy direct and they also sell upgraded versions of the 18 ACR to 50 amps. I have not ever had an issue with the original wiring size on my 73 car. I have used an 18ACR for over 45 years on original loom. 

Bruce.

P.S.

I have re-checked and there is a company called ATP they are in Cannock  www.atp-group.com.

Bruce

[Casar66]

The overhauling of my Lucas 16 ACR was not successful. I went for a original Lucas 16 ACR. But it is from Lucas TVS, the former Indian jointventure of Lucas UK and TVS, an Indian company. These alternators are in the official program of one of the biggest wholesale for automotive from Bosch and it cost me around 60€ and it looks and runs very nice.

https://hc-cargo.de/catalog/p/110178--lichtmaschine