Jump to content

Recommended Posts

A friend of mine rolled a Dolomite back in the 70s. He went up a steeply banked verge to avoid an oncoming vehicle on his side of the road and his road speed was zero when the car rolled onto its roof. He was uninjured until he released his belt and fell onto his head! ....... so if you are unlucky enough to find yourself inverted reach down to the deck with one hand before releasing the belt with the other.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/28/2020 at 2:04 PM, Motorsport Mickey said:

Roy,

I've seen 3 TRs roll over and all 3 were doing less than 30mph and 2 were doing less than 20 mph! how much slower do you need drivers to go to not to meet your definition of "driving like an idiot".

All these cars were racing and had suffered a spin and then the cars traversed across at very low speed under 20 or 30 mph onto the grass the wheels tucked under when it hit the green stuff and a ton of car oh so slowly went up and over (twice on one car). Apart from the initial cause being racing and losing it, the actual speed involved in the rollover was low (under 20mph with two of the cars) something similar to yourself driving down the road and a driver enters from a sideroad without looking causing you to swerve onto a grass verge...that's all it takes. Inertia and soft surface works really well at tripping up cars.

If you don't fancy a roll bar because you can't stand the intrusion into the "classic lines" of the car that's fine, your car your choice. 

Mick Richards

.

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that when the lad in the Peugeot looked left the Herald was obscured by the white car coming in the opposite direction, but at the speed he pulled out I would have thought there was plenty of time to have stopped. He had obviously stopped looking. Doesn`t help with a dark green and black car either, almost camouflaged.  A good reason for daylight running lights, or in our case driving with the headlights on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, RoyM said:

Ha Ha Ha, 20 mph! go on pull the other one it's got bells on it,  come on no way, if these cars are that unstable they would not be on the road, and yes i do know hitting a verge ain't a good idea so the best is to avoid them, by the way are you Donald trump "fake news fake news" ha ha ha :D, ps, i am far from a purist old chap:lol:

Disappointing reaction Roy, many of the other competition drivers or even road car drivers will be able to relate tales of cars going over (some not TRs) with very little speed involved. It's the inertia built up in a ton of car that cannot be stopped especially when a wheel digs into a soft verge or hitting a kerb sliding sideways. Also as in the example shown above with the video from Hamish an innocent drivers Triumph Herald gets put on it's side and could have been it's roof in an accident at the speeds we are talking about, inertia dear boy, inertia.  I didn't express any idea of what I thought you were.

Mick Richards

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, RoyM said:

Ha Ha Ha, 20 mph! go on pull the other one it's got bells on it,  come on no way, if these cars are that unstable they would not be on the road, and yes i do know hitting a verge ain't a good idea so the best is to avoid them, by the way are you Donald trump "fake news fake news" ha ha ha :D, ps, i am far from a purist old chap:lol:

Your welcome to your opinion Roy, but you'll win no friends here with your turn of phrase.

John.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drewmotty said:

A friend of mine rolled a Dolomite back in the 70s. He went up a steeply banked verge to avoid an oncoming vehicle on his side of the road and his road speed was zero when the car rolled onto its roof. He was uninjured until he released his belt and fell onto his head! ....... so if you are unlucky enough to find yourself inverted reach down to the deck with one hand before releasing the belt with the other.

I was a passenger in a near identical incident in 1973. My father was driving, we braked to avoid a car reversing out of a concealed entrance on the left, swerved across the road and just touched the hedge bank on the off side. We rolled so gently we ended up parked on the nearside door handles. Both belted we escaped any injury and climbed out of the drivers door window. It was rather an interesting exercise trying not to get crushed by the old man!. We did panic a bit as all we could smell was fuel poring out of the twin 40 Webbers. (We were in a hot saloon for the time a Hunter GLS.) The idiot doing the reversing.....a BSM driving school instructor on a blind bend in a Cambridgeshire village. Driving fast no, unlucky yes, alive to tell the story yes. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PhilipB said:

Iain

The advantage of the harness bar is not protection in a roll but a better placed anchorage for a harness.

 

I appreciate that,but the point i was trying to make is that  with no form of roll protection if you roll with harnesses on........you will likely as not loose your head.

Unless you are fitting this in addition to an existing RB, then that makes sense.

Edited by iain
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, PhilipB said:

Rod

and is still available with mounting points picking up on the body/chassis mountings etc

http://www.safetydevices.com/motorsport/products/roll-cage/Triumph+TR2+-1953-1955-2-door/820/1624/

Phil

Phil, Fab photo of OGB 800!!! :wub:

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

, many of the other competition drivers or even road car drivers will be able to relate tales of cars going over (some not TRs) with very little speed involved.

Mick Richards

 

Roy

Me for one. Very lucky to end up right way up in a hedge having lost it on a bend because a farmer had effectively been muck spreading across the road.

The car tripped over a grass kerb and rolled. The same farmer said "you were lucky, the last one to do that ended up wrapped round the telegraph pole (that was feet away from where I landed)"

I can't say how disappointed I am in your comments

 

Phil

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Revington supplied (produced by 'Caged' in Frome) roll over bar fitted. Apart from the obvious roll over safety protection, it really stiffens the car so makes it a better drive (imho) and more importantly (again imho) - gives some protection in the event of being t-boned at a junction - there is none in a sidescreen car otherwise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

PROS AND CONS AND PERSONAL CHOICE

Speaking as a PO, when I bought my 2, it had a roll bar fitted (partly resting on the wheel arches and secured by steel brackets, identical to Phil's). I hated it.

I also thought it was a modern intrusion that ruined the aesthetics of a classic sportscar. I couldn't remove it fast enough. I was very lucky. I had no rolls.

Speaking as a CO (current owner) of a 3, I haven't changed my mind. For I still don't like it, but now I realize the fatal injuries I could sustain if the car rolled. The design is better, incorporating as it does a diagonal bar.

No doubt about it, it's functional. On this one, I trust my betters' experience more than my own aesthetic judgement. 

The stakes are too high.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Chaps, many thanks for the interesting replies!

The bolt arrangements on the base plates of my bar match those of Phil's, and I suspect that they are in fact the same model, but whereas Phil's feet have been curved, mine are still very flat!  One thing I do have, however, is a very large anvil and a big hammer so all things are possible.....  Interesting to note that the corresponding base plate on Hamish's bar is a sort of triangular shape, which would make it much easier to form to fit the two-way curve of the wheel arch.

Neil, I assume that you are talking about something like the safety devices one that Phil posted a link to?  Do you have a photo  of it in your car? .

Thanks again

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Revington bar had flat plates but they can be gently eased  to better suit the arch profile with a large adjustable spanner. A couple of bits of cardboard were enough to protect the finish. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Dave Herrod said:

Well Chaps, many thanks for the interesting replies!

The bolt arrangements on the base plates of my bar match those of Phil's, and I suspect that they are in fact the same model, but whereas Phil's feet have been curved, mine are still very flat!  One thing I do have, however, is a very large anvil and a big hammer so all things are possible.....  Interesting to note that the corresponding base plate on Hamish's bar is a sort of triangular shape, which would make it much easier to form to fit the two-way curve of the wheel arch.

Neil, I assume that you are talking about something like the safety devices one that Phil posted a link to?  Do you have a photo  of it in your car? .

Thanks again

 

Sounds to me as if it would be very much better to make your own plates  to the exact shape of the arches (without hammering them, so as to retain their stiffness due to compound curvature) and to use those new plates to replace the feet presently on the roll cage.

Pete.

Edited by Bfg
Link to post
Share on other sites

Having read all of the above, & currently have a fair bit of time on my hands I am being tempted to go the Roll bar route myself.

I already have a 4 point harness & a home made harness bar, but I'm thinking along the lines of the Revington RTR9047-1HB bar

https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr9047-1hb/name/rob-road-tr2-3b-with-harness-bar-and-ferrules

I can use the integral harness bar instead of my existing one which I could no longer fix as it's position would clash with the roll bar mountings.

Any comments for or against my choice ?

Bob.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s the one I have Bob. I still sometimes think that I should have got the one with the diagonal. The removable diagonal was never considered as it would be difficult to fit quickly as the car goes over before it lands upside down :-)

Whichever you fit make sure that it’s fitted with proper padding as a frontal can easily shake you about enough to cause a nasty or fatal head injury even if you can’t get your head anywhere near the bar by wriggling about in the seat.  Plumbing foam is no good and surprisingly neither is roll bar padding as it is designed to be used with a helmet and is too hard without. The stuff you need is designed for door bars and cages where unprotected flailing arms and legs are likely to come into contact. 

138E9226-95EB-4CA8-85B3-0FAAEFF011EC.jpeg

Edited by Drewmotty
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob

i went for the same but with removable diagonal. 
 

ideally you need to plate where it mounts on the rear arches. 

The under arch plates are the same size as the roll bar feet.

you need to position it carefully then drilland bolt. Some bolts are tricky to do up tight due to plate angles but if I can do it ( twice :rolleyes:) anyone can.

andrew has a fair point about padding during non helmet driving.

would I buy the same. Not sure- 

I did see a very good arrangement with the roll bar to the floor as described above (Safety Devices) but with an option to have removable side door bars to an under dash hoop. 
that looked very robust.

h

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Drewmotty said:

One of the jobs on my list is an under dash hoop to stiffen the scuttle as much as anything. 

I have seen two types

one goes right to the top under dash behind clocks do dash out to fit. 
the other is shorter and fit to the bottom line f dash level so dash can stay in to fit.

i think John Hanna did the high dash and door bar version on his TR4 

H

ps don’t forget if you fit a roll bar you will have to faff about making changes to the tonneau

Edited by Hamish
Added ps
Link to post
Share on other sites

I went with the Revington version with the removable diagonal. I use the diagonal for Track days and if I am doing special tests on rallys. For road use its out normally. It was very easy to fit, is designed to fit the HT and Soft top, it has the harness bar at the correct height for harness to work correctly.

 Personally I think you would have to have a fairly monumental impact to destroy the Wheel arch mounted versions and not survive.

As Neil told me when I bought my bar, "the original concept of this design can be attributed to John Aley of Aley bars. A very early bar was fitted to John Welburn’s black TR3 which he then rolled at Goodwood. There are photos of John , arms flaying as he rolled over and over. John walked away. The bar was intact ,wheel arches dented but the bar nonetheless saved Johns life."

For me that was sufficient evidence to purchase

Iain

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Thanks guys. what does the fitting kit consist of ? does it include plates to go under the wheel arches ?

Bob.

You get the under plates and the very robust bolts and nyloc  Nuts.
(you don’t get the over sized plates that are recommended in the motorsport UK rule book see page 181)

but these roll bars are just like the fitting described drawing 19 on page 182 and I believe the TR3 wheel arches are very strong. All of this I believe is better than nothing.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Blue-Book-2020-1.pdf

you just need some big drill bits

Edited by Hamish
Added detail
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.