Correlating Screw / bolt numbers and sizes

[stallie]

I'm about to start restoration on my barn find TR6 and I am getting things in order for it. 

As part of this, I have found a good supplier of nuts and bolts here in the antipodes and want to work out what I can get locally, and how much. I also want stock to hand so I can put the replacement bolts together with the parts in readiness to bolt on again. I also want I aim to break them all down into a nice quick reference table.

I spent some time sitting in a hotel room cross referencing screw, nuts washers from:

• 1973 Triumph Parts Catalogue
• Hardware catalogue for Standard Triumph Vehicles
• Moss and TRF etc.

I have been through the Parts manual and identified the different bolt types - all 98 of them! - and am just starting on the screws now.

The HB and HU bolt/screw series are pretty straight forward - they appear in the Hardware Catalogue show the threads and the diameter and length.  But is the numbered bolts and set screws that have me a little confused. (I think I read somewhere that these sizes were brought into the Triumph production line with the new models after the Triumph Hardware catalogue was published).

Take for instance, for the PI motor - part number 100500 - the bolt that hold the timing gear to the camshaft.

It is listed by that number in the parts catalogue and in Moss. But nowhere can I find the specs on it. It doesn't appear in the index in the back of the moss catalogue.

Does anyone have a document (or can point me where I've missed it!) where I can find dimensions for those screws and bolts with a 6 digit number (and no prefix)?

Cheers

 

[Richard Pope]

Jumping in on this topic, why can't suppliers actually do a full restoration bolt kit There are kits for suspension, kits of SS bolts, Kits of UNF, etc. I for one would like just a full restoration bolt kit, period.

[stallie]

I thought the same Richard, except doing this table shows that there are variations in models and US / ROW differences. Maybe that's why? Admittedly the differences aren't large an the cost of the few extra wouldn't be great. 

 

[Ian Vincent]

I just bought two bags of assorted UNF from Namrick and topped up as necessary. 

Rgds Ian

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

On 4/26/2020 at 3:32 PM, stallie said:

I'm about to start restoration on my barn find TR6 and I am getting things in order for it. 

As part of this, I have found a good supplier of nuts and bolts here in the antipodes and want to work out what I can get locally, and how much. I also want stock to hand so I can put the replacement bolts together with the parts in readiness to bolt on again. I also want I aim to break them all down into a nice quick reference table.

I spent some time sitting in a hotel room cross referencing screw, nuts washers from:

• 1973 Triumph Parts Catalogue
• Hardware catalogue for Standard Triumph Vehicles
• Moss and TRF etc.

I have been through the Parts manual and identified the different bolt types - all 98 of them! - and am just starting on the screws now.

The HB and HU bolt/screw series are pretty straight forward - they appear in the Hardware Catalogue show the threads and the diameter and length.  But is the numbered bolts and set screws that have me a little confused. (I think I read somewhere that these sizes were brought into the Triumph production line with the new models after the Triumph Hardware catalogue was published).

Take for instance, for the PI motor - part number 100500 - the bolt that hold the timing gear to the camshaft.

Is yours missing or broken?  This is a high sheer fastener with a special shank and thread length to suit the gear and cam threaded section - you could realistically substitute it with a similar property fastener from the aircraft world.  It is like almost everything on the TR unified thread form. (Lucas sneak in some odd balls)

A similar special bolt is used on the 4 cylinder TR engine and that too is not an HB series.  So not true on the introduction of all digit hardware part numbering. 

What did come in with the amalgamation of the BL companies was a new general hardware identification scheme  consisting of two alpha then 6 numeric  This covered nuts bolts washers screws split pins etc.

From memory - bolt hexagon headed (BH)  unf (6) a 5/16" (05)  1" (08)  long and standard plated finish (1).  BH605081 is HB0808 in the old Triumph hardware.  There are also the old Austin Morris, Nuffield, Land Rover  and Jaguar standard hardware specs to contend with which is why a new standard was introduced to amalgamate and rationalise the hardware - Now add in BMW and you get another set of hardware standards.

139835 the front suspension trunion pivot bolt is a bog standard looking bolt but it is not - It has a shorter thread than a regular bolt when compared to its length.  It is also drilled for a split pin and is of a high tensile steel when compared to regular hardware.  If you see a cheap front suspension bolt suspect its lineage and quality.  This bolt I do have a manufacturing drawing for somewhere.

It is listed by that number in the parts catalogue and in Moss. But nowhere can I find the specs on it. It doesn't appear in the index in the back of the moss catalogue.

Does anyone have a document (or can point me where I've missed it!) where I can find dimensions for those screws and bolts with a 6 digit number (and no prefix)?

The only place I expect you will find specifications is in the original factory drawing files that were held at Gaydon Archive, even then they were not complete.

Cheers

Peter W

 

 

[stallie]

Thanks for the details Peter - always amazed and humbled at the wealth of knowledge in here.

My 100500s are fine - I just used it as an example, but I do appreciate the words as they do show that as an old (antipodean?) saying goes, Oils aint Oils. 

My aim was to have a spreadsheet that if Bloggs wants to replace a bolt (or check what size should be there if POs have been creative) he can just look at the list. I'd thought about replacing the X with numbers in there too - that would be phase 2 and actually less work than it seems with CMD+F. It's easy and almost complete for the HB1234 series currently, but not the prefixless 123456 series.  It might be a bit harder than first thought.... 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by stallie

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Here's fun for you - not very exciting but useful.

You need a copy of the Triumph TR6 parts catalogue 517785A to use it.

A list of where the alpha numeric hardware part numbers happen in the catalogue by page and plate number

XL file attached

 

Cheers

Peter W

517785_A Numeric Index.xlsx

[stallie]

Peter - I hope you were able to automate that - 7000 odd items!

4690 unique entries.... that's a lot of hotel quarantine time. Thanks for sharing. It doesn't solve my problem, but it helps.

I will go through and identify all set screws and bolts in the TR6 parts catalogue as my table above and I guess just fill them in as I come across them in the strip and rebuild.

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Thread Drift  Sorry.  

 

Sweeping Statement Time - If Triumph started their 6 digit part numbers with a 5  it was a 'fully bought out' part and was probably not drawn by the factory or it was a kit of parts.  Weird one here is the crown wheel and pinion assembly.  The drawing (yes they exist) of 516398 the 3.45:1 CW&P is a sheet of paper giving the part numbers of the two parts - The crown wheel and the pinion, so you can go searching for their individual drawings.  Another one probably nearer to home for many is the chassis to body fitting kit 574244 for TR.  

The hardware and other part numbers you see that are 6 digit and start with a '5' like 575144.  The Long-Lok bolt used to pivot &  retain the sun visor to its mounting bracket.  Long-Lok is a self locking bolt done with a nylon patch. Triumph probably assembled the visors onto their bracket using a bought in non standard bolt (from LongLok) hence they never drew the item.  http://www.longlok.com   You could probably replicate the item today using thread lock.

There is a book affectionately known as the Triumph kit book.  I only know of 2 copies, and neither do I have access to now. It contains a wealth of info that unlocks the secrets of what is in a kit.  

 

 

574244 cleaned.pdf

Edited May 1, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[JohnC]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:26 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Here's fun for you - not very exciting but useful.

You need a copy of the Triumph TR6 parts catalogue 517785A to use it.

A list of where the alpha numeric hardware part numbers happen in the catalogue by page and plate number

XL file attached

 

Cheers

Peter W

517785_A Numeric Index.xlsxUnavailable

Hi Peter,

Any chance you could repost the Excel file please? It would be very useful.

Thanks,

John

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Hi Peter,

Any chance you could repost the Excel file please? It would be very useful.

Thanks,

John

Hope this works

Peter W

517785_A Numeric Index.xlsx