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tr6 crankshaft sproket


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~ there is no info in the manual  on this or on techicalities disc

I need to remove  the crank sproket  with its spacer sleve ~ woodruff key is not wanting to move 

The key itself is a long one about 42 mm long and ends in the sproket itself

Thinking of using a hub puller  notched between the two sproket teeth rings ~ maybe try behind the oil thower on the sleeve first  anyone else had problems with this

thanks    robin

crank sproket tr6 .PNG

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Hi Robin,

That's exactly what I've had to do in the past, two legged puller behind the sprocket and it came off without any trouble, I wasn't planning on re-using the sprocket, hope you're planning on replacing also as some damage may be done to the teeth.

Applying some heat might be another option, but soon enough others will be along with other ideas.

Richard.

P.S.

Is that one of Racetorations fancy front engine plates with the added steel plate section?

Edited by Richard71
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Perhaps one of these, a Bearing Separator could be helpful. 

Clamp it round the sprocket between the two lines of teeth and extract with a puller.

image.png.33e1a9d431a45e8473fdc8ec9fcc429d.png

Cheap kits that include two sizes of separator and the puller.  If it works once it was good. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-pcs-Bearing-Splitter-Gear-Puller-Fly-Wheel-Separator-Set-With-Box-Tool-Kit-UK/293557684878?hash=item445966ca8e%3Ag%3AGrsAAOSwUAVeopuj&LH_BIN=1

OR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-12pcs-Bearing-Splitter-Gear-Puller-Fly-Wheel-Separator-Set-With-Box-Tool-Kit/263550520539?hash=item3d5cd5ccdb%3Ag%3A2~MAAOSwKtBd0lfE&LH_BIN=1

Cheers

Peter W

 

 

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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7 hours ago, Richard71 said:

Hi Robin,

That's exactly what I've had to do in the past, two legged puller behind the sprocket and it came off without any trouble, I wasn't planning on re-using the sprocket, hope you're planning on replacing also as some damage may be done to the teeth.

Applying some heat might be another option, but soon enough others will be along with other ideas.

Richard.

P.S.

Is that one of Racetorations fancy front engine plates with the added steel plate section?

On principle, I never use an old sprocket with a new chain. 

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ok guys excellant pratical suggestions  especially on the bearing seperator  ~  many thanks

Checked this out with Andy at  Revington ~   they use a hydraulic puller with theirs  ~ clearly for the pulling force

I will try with a mechanical  neilson heavy duty puller which I have ordered on flea bay .It will be all about the feet being able to notch

with enough grip to pull both sleeve an spokett over the woodruff key  Will post  the result !

cheers   robin

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Interesting topic - I'm just in the process of replacing the timing chain cover seal and sleeve and I was finding it impossible to get the old sleeve off. Judging by the bash marks on the end it had been a tight fit when installed (not by me!). I was struggling to find a method to get this off and eventually found a mention of the bearing splitter/puller type mentioned above. This is the perfect tool for doing this and what seemed almost impossible actually pulled off really easily - just by hand on the puller bolt! Definitely worth the investment - attached is the photos of the one I used from Laser tools.

I think for the job you are talking about removing the sprocket, you will need to get the sleeve off first anyway - might be better than trying to pull both the sleeve and sprocket off together. It might be that with this tool you get the sleeve off and if needed then use a longer arm type puller like the one used for pulling the pulley off for example to pull the sprocket - you would need to protect the teeth if you want to re-use it, but surprisingly little force is needed if pulled evenly by the puller.

 

Does anyone have an idea how to refit the new sleeve please( I know it goes on taper end first with the seal and cover fitted) the one I have from Rimmers is an extremely tight fit and heating up in the oven doesn't do enough. I don't want to heat it too much for fear of damaging the seal when I fit it. I have ordered another sleeve from TRGB to see if it is a different fit.

20200423_160926.jpg

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Ok : Its amazing when raising a subject just how many bods have  been in the  same situation ~ in my case the woodruff key is not coming out

so I am about to pull both sprokett /oil thrower / sleeve  off in one go .  Revingtons use a hydraulic puller

In my research's some one suggested using a can of gas  coolant / freezer type  to free the bit I wanted and this may be a way forward with the sleeve  ie cooling

the crank ,  however I must say this  'cure'  is speculative   !

I stay away from the sheds for vital parts  like  sproket / sleeve   and use  suppliers like revington who care about their reputation as well as freely giving of their experience to overcome such a problem . With the re install of the sleeve I would  ask revington  workshop guys, Dan  or Carl . Please do post their  reply as I may well be neeeding the same advice !    cheers  robin

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Judging by how firmly my sleeve was on the crankshaft it might be easier to pull them off one at a time. Of course they both might move ok  together - I didn't try that.

I bought the replacement part from Rimmers - is that what you call "sheds", I would have expected them to care about their reputation, but I agree about the advice - it seems easier to come by at the smaller suppliers! TRGB are where I normally buy my parts for the same reason you like Revington - I only didn't buy initially from them this time because I didn't get a reply when I called first time and I assumed they were closed due to the virus. They are open and new part ordered - if this is also as difficult to fit as the Rimmer part I will be asking their advice and I'll post the reply - if it does fit - i.e. bigger id then I'll also post that!

I love it that the manual just says remove and refit these parts!!! - If only it was that easy!

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3 hours ago, cp7535he said:

Ok : Its amazing when raising a subject just how many bods have  been in the  same situation ~ in my case the woodruff key is not coming out

so I am about to pull both sprokett /oil thrower / sleeve  off in one go .  Revingtons use a hydraulic puller

In my research's some one suggested using a can of gas  coolant / freezer type  to free the bit I wanted and this may be a way forward with the sleeve  ie cooling

the crank ,  however I must say this  'cure'  is speculative   !

I stay away from the sheds for vital parts  like  sproket / sleeve   and use  suppliers like revington who care about their reputation as well as freely giving of their experience to overcome such a problem . With the re install of the sleeve I would  ask revington  workshop guys, Dan  or Carl . Please do post their  reply as I may well be neeeding the same advice !    cheers  robin

 

1 hour ago, Rob Y said:

Judging by how firmly my sleeve was on the crankshaft it might be easier to pull them off one at a time. Of course they both might move ok  together - I didn't try that.

I bought the replacement part from Rimmers - is that what you call "sheds", I would have expected them to care about their reputation, but I agree about the advice - it seems easier to come by at the smaller suppliers! TRGB are where I normally buy my parts for the same reason you like Revington - I only didn't buy initially from them this time because I didn't get a reply when I called first time and I assumed they were closed due to the virus. They are open and new part ordered - if this is also as difficult to fit as the Rimmer part I will be asking their advice and I'll post the reply - if it does fit - i.e. bigger id then I'll also post that!

I love it that the manual just says remove and refit these parts!!! - If only it was that easy!

I have no doubt that a hydraulic puller would pull the whole lot off in one go, as I have a Sykes Picavant one and nothing has defeated it yet in 40 years of usage against any Triumph taper. The only thing against it is the price of it.

Bruce.

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1 hour ago, Rob Y said:

Judging by how firmly my sleeve was on the crankshaft it might be easier to pull them off one at a time. Of course they both might move ok  together - I didn't try that.

I bought the replacement part from Rimmers - is that what you call "sheds", I would have expected them to care about their reputation, but I agree about the advice - it seems easier to come by at the smaller suppliers! TRGB are where I normally buy my parts for the same reason you like Revington - I only didn't buy initially from them this time because I didn't get a reply when I called first time and I assumed they were closed due to the virus. They are open and new part ordered - if this is also as difficult to fit as the Rimmer part I will be asking their advice and I'll post the reply - if it does fit - i.e. bigger id then I'll also post that!

I love it that the manual just says remove and refit these parts!!! - If only it was that easy!

It is common practice to light emery the sleeve to make a good fit.

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well , the bearing seperator worked a treat and I pulled off the sproket ,oil thrower and sleeve in one go

with less than 50 ft ib on the torque wrench  .  Used a spare bit of metal over the  crank end to get a good pull over the woodruff key

which itself came out without too much wellie  . If you check the pic closely  you will see the discovery of a bent spacer  behind the sproket !

thankyou chaps for the sucessful tech assist

pulling the sproket oil thrower & sleeve .JPG

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Excellent, it’s definitely the right tool for the job.

Any thoughts about refitting? Have you got a new seal sleeve? (If so where from and what is the fit like?) It would be nice if there was a “pusher” like the pullers to fit sleeves and pulleys on shafts like this so you can push them on square........or is there something?

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I have bought all new parts including the  spacer/s behind the sproket. For this I have bought parts entirely from Revington 

I need to clean the crank end  first and if I have differculty will use the old sproket  as a 'punch face ' to get the new spoket at least lined up and partially in then a large  box spanner to finish it off   but I stress this is speculation right now ! Shape wise I guess a 'Presser ' would have the action of a G clamp but be Bell shaped and have fixing holes for the front engine plate howeveras I have an Ali front engine plate  [ not the orginal steel one ] it  may not be strong enough   [ to avoid bending ]  anyway I will post again if I  find an answer!  cheers robin

Edited by cp7535he
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Now ~ cleaned the crank   with ali oxide paper 302 grade  soaked with  wd40  so that it was bright clean  and then some  ~ using a rotational movement .Also 'sanded' the new woodruff key  sides   then pleanty of copperslip pasted onto carnk and key  used an oversize old lister spanner 7/8 whitworth to help get an even pressure on tapping home  . Its easy to get the sproket and sleeve the wrong way arounf by the way

I am putting on the sleeve / Oil Thrower after the cam timing      cheers  robin

IMG_0467.JPG

installing the crank sproket.JPG

Edited by cp7535he
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What is the alignment of the cam sprocket to the crank sprocket with a straight edge like?

On the TR2 engine I had to reshim the new repro sprocket to get the things in alignment.

 I would use the crank bolt thread to pull the sprocket on rather than whacking it. - Fit a length of studding and wind it on with a nut, washer & spacer.

Cheers

Peter W

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Ok I am dealing with a TR6  arrangement and looking at the Tr4 parts manual I see the two choices of thickness spacer [shim]  are the same for  both models.

 I have no idea if the  Tr2 crank spacers options [shims] are of the same  thickness . On my crank there was a spacer [ shim] already fitted  . I simply replaced that as first step .However the alignment cannot be checked with a straight edge  without the  crank sproket being fitted . 

I have yet to do that as I have to fit the cam sprokett for the cam timing sequence.

Using the crank bolt as described  is a good idea  .   With the way I did it  allowed me to feel the tightness of the resistance to refit . ~ tapping rather than wacking  I might add . I am confident that if need be I can remove the sproket without damage for a change of spacer on checking  the alignment.

Each bod no doubt will look around their garage for suitable tools to do the re-fit of the crank sproket , other bods reading this post will now see two ways of doing it !  It all helps

 

 

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Shims are here at 0.004"  and 0.006" thicknesses. item 21

Yes you are right the cam and crank sprockets must both be fitted to confirm their alignment for the chain.

It all goes to cock in the future if the crank thrust washers wear excessively.

Cheers

Peter W

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On 5/1/2020 at 3:31 PM, cp7535he said:

well , the bearing seperator worked a treat and I pulled off the sproket ,oil thrower and sleeve in one go

with less than 50 ft ib on the torque wrench  .  Used a spare bit of metal over the  crank end to get a good pull over the woodruff key

which itself came out without too much wellie  . If you check the pic closely  you will see the discovery of a bent spacer  behind the sproket !

thankyou chaps for the sucessful tech assist

pulling the sproket oil thrower & sleeve .JPG

Looking at the picture above, there seems to be a lot of rust around the keyway? If I am right I think that was where your problem lay in getting that sprocket off? Has your engine been left a long time not been used?

Bruce.

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Hi Bruce  ~  the picture does not reflect the real crank condition and the discolouration however caused , was not sufficient to cause me concern , once removed  the woodruff keyway  itself was quite clear of any rust  .I do not retrospectively think it added to any differculty of extracting the old sproket using the bearing seperator method  .  cheers  robin

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Robin

In your original picture the seal sleeve should be fitted with the chamfer facing the gear, easier to push it thru the seal, after fitting the cover, just ease it carefully or you can sometimes push the spring ring of the inside of the seal.

Perhaps the PO turned the sleeve to get a new position for the seal.

John

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Ok John .  I did some research on the  sleeve chamfer  as to which way it goes ~  It appears  that  there are two valid  ways of doing it.  with your suggestion the oil thrower is already on the crank  then the timing cover is put on  ~ before the fitting of the sleeve through the oil seal ~ visually it would more carefull lining up on the key of course . Plus when its a 'tight ' fit would most likely need  the crank nut method as suggested by Peter W to install it .   If required,  at some later date on the cover being removed , the oil seal would be more likely to slip over the chamfer more easily if the  oil seal reaches right to the sleve end and it would be a better seal with the spring holding it on the chamfer toward the sproket .

With the camfer side pointing away from the engine as in my original pic,  its easier to install the sleeve  for I can see what is going on when its a tight fit  as it goes over the key on the crank  . The oil seal  more easily centers  itself on the crank , as the timing cover is put on with less risk of losing the  oil seal lip spring.

I reckon most bods would want  to renew the oil seal anyway if the cover is removed  .

As far as I know There are no other considerations to be looked out for on which way around the  sleeve chamfer edge  goes on the crank   ~ on balance  I prefer to put it back the way it came off as in the pic .     cheers robin

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Robin

I'm only advising which way the manual says to assemble, I've done this recently and the sleeve slips on easily, the cover is on dowels so no need to use sleeve to centralise

image.png.a17f796d2628e3e5d8e4f9125fda6eb3.png

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