tim hunt Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Anyone know this car, no record of 555 VC with DVLA. Rallied by Roger Clark - really!! Perhaps another Roger Clark. 'Similar to car rallied once by Roger Clark in 1963' would be better. At least original commission no is correct for a 1963 car and it was on a LHD car.. https://themarket.co.uk/listings/triumph/tr4/7c4363f0-2983-4207-827c-dba127a5466c?status=preview Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 It says the seller is TR4TONY Isn't that Tony Sheach. If so, then the description would be pretty good. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, RogerH said: It says the seller is TR4TONY Isn't that Tony Sheach. If so, then the description would be pretty good. Roger I thought TR4Tony was registered on here not been about for a while tho nice car all sorted just the steering wheel is on the wrong side H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 More of a wannabe rally car, no roll cage for a start and the fuse box on top of the right hand foot well is a disaster waiting to happen as they often fill up with water. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Once upon a time, this was Evan Mackenzie's car, and Evan worked for Triumph (or whatever it called itself in the 1980s) and was able to acquire useful parts to enhance the car's performance. It was registered EBWxxx (I've a bad memory for numbers) and was a quick motor - and the description of its history is accurate. It was featured in magazines of the period. Evan retired to France, and the car then was registered there. He later sold in France (I think it was to a Frenchman). Tony Sheach acquired the car, brought it back to the UK and had it registered 555VC, but I believe he will retain the number when the car is sold (he likes VC numbers!). Tony gave up contributing to this Forum when he, like a number of others, became disillusioned by the then management's treatment of the Spares Development Fund, and various other issues. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 To be fair the add dose say replicar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 This may seem extraordinary, but when Triumph's Comps Dept was running TR4s in Rallies in 1962-1963, the Regulations did not permit a roll cage to be fitted - seat belts were permitted and were fitted, and 4VC still has its original belts. Why were not rollcages permitted, one might ask - it would seem to be a sensible precaution. Graham tells me that a cage was considered to be a method of strengthening the vehicle's structure, and hence not permissible. Triumph fitted the Surrey backlight and fixed (metal) lid, Healeys used a hardtop, Ford wanted to fit cages to the Falcons, but was not allowed. Roy Fidler managed to roll 3VC on the 1963 RAC Rally, and both he and navigator Grimshaw escaped unscathed, which suggests that the arrangement provides useful protection. When brought back from America, Neil Revington fitted modern harness seat belts and rollcage to 6VC and 3VC, as the cars were once again used in competition here and in Europe, and scored a number of successes. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julian Stephens Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Hello Ian To help restore your loss of memory, the missing digits are 656A. I took this shot on the 4th December 1993 at the Portreath stage of the first Le Jog. Evan was crewed by John Kiff and the start marshal was Pete Hancock. Cheers Julian Member 918 St. Austell Edited April 17, 2020 by Julian Stephens Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Julian Stephens said: Hello Ian To help restore your loss of memory, the missing digits are 656A. I took this shot on the 4th December 1993 at the Portreath stage of the first Le Jog. Evan was crewed by John Kiff and the start marshal is Pete Hancock. Cheers Julian Member 918 St. Austell Also then sporting a roll bar by the looks of it. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Thanks, Julian - that's saved me the bother of getting out my boxes of old magazines! Are you able to perform other feats in restoring my little grey cells? Stuart - yes, definitely a rollbar in there in 1983. Perhaps the diagonal is removeable? I might ask Tony. Roger Clark & Brian Culcheth drove 4VC in the 1963 Liège Rally but, like the other members of the Triumph team, failed to finish. Quite possible that Roger Clark (same one!) drove EBW656A following his retirement from International competition - neither Evan nor Tony would have claimed a lie. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Hi all This is the car that Evan Mackenzie built with assistance from factory people and Chris Carter, then if Chestnut House Sportscars in Market Deeping. This was in his BL days and a lot of the people associated appear to be ex Standard Triumph, as do the bits on the car. It’s a close ish replica of the four works cars and I’m told it was the very first, at a time when only 4VC was known about. It’s not a perfect copy by any means, but it was built to stage and road rally and there is a fat file of paperwork from the late 1980’s onwards where it featured in historic stage and rallies as they started to reform. It has various MSA stage rally papers, FIVA card etc but now all out of date. It will get new papers by completing the paperwork and paying the monies. When I first met Evan he was just about to retire out of Penrite Oil and he still used the car regularly, winning the first Gold medal ever on LEJOG with my friend John Kiff and a number of other class and event wins. He sold it after moving to France where Michael Kershaw bought it and some of you will have seen him compete on longer distance road events and UK big ones like Rally of the Tests etc. Michael sold it via RPS in Oxford where Peter Barker bought its and rallied it well with people like Willy Cave and Peter Scott on the Monte, ROTT, LEJOG, Lombard Bath etc. It has a good 30 years rally history and in good order, and there are not many cars that you can say that of. As Ian C mentioned I acquired it in October last year from Peter who had my MK1 2000 and I his TR4 in a straight swap as he wants a big saloon to go long distance rallying in and I had had enough of the 2000 die to its ‘difficult’ build and birth. I’ve run the TR4 a few times and it’s a sweet handling powerful car, but ‘we’ have ‘decided’ that I’m downsizing, as 5 powder blue TR4’s, a Riley special and a Golf GTI are more than anyone needs and I have two major TR4 restorations on the go at the moment, so no time to use it properly and more importantly to keep it in good shape if we event it. That’s why it’s for sale, no other reason. It’s also no Beastie, so I know which car we are out in as a preference. I have held onto 555VC on retention, but if the new owner wants it my arm can be twisted for a suitable fee ! I also have a have a enough TR4 rally spares to fill a 40 tonne truck, so if anyone wants to take up rallying, at least some of it might be released as we go. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Here is inside. I’ve removed my preferred steering wheel and put the original Motolita back in. Otherwise this is how it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 In answer to the 3 questions posed earlier, Tony sent me this: 1. Roll bar is in it, it’s a rear hoop really and was stage rallied like that. 2. Electrical stuff has been stowed up under the dash. It’s a connector box for various sensors as the car is kitted out for an eTRIP, Brantz and a Peltor intercom set. Only the Brantz is connected up. 3. The paperwork says that Roger Clark did the Charrington Stages in 1992 and Tony Dron did the Clumber Park stage rally in the car. It also did the Goodwood rally stage with Evan Mackenzie, so I think possibly the only TR4 to take part in the Festival of Speed. There are a few videos on tube of both events. If anyone wants to see it it’s in my garage alongside 3VC for now, but as soon as I can get it moved it’s off to auction. Evan's was definitely the very first attempt at a replica or tribute to the Triumph VC cars of 1962/3, and Evan had the money and the contacts to enable him to make a good job of the car. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted April 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 Thanks for the clarification and all the background Tony, nice to see you on here again. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 Thanks Tim. I always watch, but rarely post. regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 I recollected that Evan's car featured in a couple of car magazines 30 years ago, so I had a look through my collection: - Classic & Sportscar, October 1990, pp78-81 - Motor Sport, Dec 1990, pp1316-1319 - just a photo - story continued in …. - Motor Sport, January 1991, pp56-57 I have a feeling that there was another, which was a test of 3 or 4 TRs, but I haven't found it (or my perhaps memory is faulty!). Should there remain any doubters, Tony has given me a link to a nice video, with Evan’s TR4 and shots of Roger Clark competing on the 1993 Charrington Stage Rally (Roger Clark / Evan Mackenzie): https://youtu.be/8UBzM94qOMU Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, ianc said: Should there remain any doubters, Tony has given me a link to a nice video, with Evan’s TR4 and shots of Roger Clark competing on the 1993 Charrington Stage Rally (Roger Clark / Evan Mackenzie): https://youtu.be/8UBzM94qOMU Ian Cornish The youtube clip is entertaining, and along with Roger Clark in the TR4, a glimpse of the TR Enterprises TR4 ACE222B - Steve Hall? Towards the end, a great piece of commentary when Tony Mason speaks of the Japanese entrants (having rolled their mini) return to the land of the rising sun - Scunthorpe!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no offence to our Scunthorpe members, I worked at the steelworks myself for a couple of summers as a student) And I may be mistaken, but in the background at one of the stage starts, it could be the commentary voice of Graham Robson? Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 ACE222B is Steve Hall’s TR4 which he still has up in Scotland. I remember his spot lamp pod well ... fibreglass attachment to the bonnet, with the same eyelid profiles. Lovely thing ! There is another video around of Tony Dron driving the car on the Clumber Park Stages a little later in 1993. If anyone finds it I’d really like to see it as it’s evaded me thus far. Hope you’re all still in good health. regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 Thanks for posting that video link Ian very much enjoyed it. quite fancy one of those quick blue tr4s sadly nowhere to keep it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony_C Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 Yes I remember this car being a fearsome competitor back in the early / mid 90’s whenever I came up against Evan in my 3A, think I could still dig out some of the paperwork Possibly should not be posting this here now... However, I’ve seriously been thinking over the past week that if I could get one final 4 (Had four of them over the years and still got approx 25% of one in bits) this one would absolutely be the one I would want (OK, nothing wrong with ‘dreaming’ of works and or TRS but realistically I know my limited resources and this one would tick all my boxes!).... Therefore, been dithering, do I First tell/discuss all the pro’s with wife? Contact Tony and see if we can come to mutually happy / acceptable arrangement and then tell wife the good news? Option 2 has always been my first and only modus-operandi in acquiring all my old cars. However, last one (Immaculate albeit fragile one owner Elan Sprint from 1971) I got locked out the house between garage and drive!... To be fair on her in hindsight, I’d also bought 50% of classic round the world sailing yacht (also without telling her) the day before as part of the same convoluted deal..... Hopefully Tony is not following here because struggling how to raise option 1 and option 2 is a non starter if I cannot get in contact with Tony... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 If you have somewhere to keep it ?Option 1 float the idea and safer than a Ducati ....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 Tony, Option 1, or you'll be sleeping in the Four! John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) On 4/17/2020 at 10:07 AM, ianc said: Tony gave up contributing to this Forum when he, like a number of others, became disillusioned by the then management's treatment of the Spares Development Fund, and various other issues. Ian Cornish Ian, More power to the elbow of SDF! SDF is a fantastic initiative, truly in keeping with core Triumph TR Register values and aspirations. Edited May 16, 2020 by DavidBee I was talking out of turn, had only half-read prior posts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I competed against Evan and this car at the Longcross Stages - my one and only stage rally (probably 1991, but I'll have to dig out the paperwork to be certain). I was in my Vitesse 6 (1600cc). Shockingly, he was faster than we were... Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 Tony_C: I have sent you a PM. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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