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Centre gauge panel removal / replacement


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If I can get to the lock up without attracting the attention of plod, one of the tasks I am thinking about is replacement of the centre gauge panel. I have a nice powder coated one to install in place of the old vinyl covered one. Because of the rats nest of old and brittle wires behind it and the need to disconnect the capillary / tube for the temp and oil pressure gauges, I have been very hesitant about doing this. So can I garner a bit of guidance (and I have looked at some previous threads)?

After disconnecting the battery, is there a preferred order for removing the panel / various components?

Secondly, presumably the capillary tube for the Temp gauge needs to be unbolted from the thermo housing and then fed back through the bulkhead and out of the panel. Reverse for installing into the new panel. However, my capillary tube is pretty solidly embedded in the housing and don’t want to break it!

So is there a cheat’s solution by unscrewing the gauge bezel which holds the glass in on the Temp  gauge (I have done this previously when dismantling an old fuel gauge)? This would avoid having to disconnect the temp capillary tube (and copper oil tube although I am a bit less worried about this).

Thanks as ever.

Miles

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Miles

I have a spare temp gauge and it appears to have a lip which would mean you could not pass the gauge through the hole in the centre console, even if you could the needle would be susceptible to damage as it is very delicate. 
I changed the console last year a task not to be repeated as to the work involved. Make sure you label all the wires as even with a wiring diagram this will help. 
The copper tube is easy to undo BUT don’t loose the little washer that goes on the the back of the gauge ( Moss part No 2K4936)

As far as removal of the thermostat from the housing is concerned I can only suggest lots of WD 40 etc and great care. 
If you have any further problems feel free to contact me. 
Cheers

Gordon

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Thanks Gordon.

Thought that might be the case. The one certainty of owning a TR is that rarely is anything simple. Given the potential for an error on my part, I thought the extended lay up might be a good time to attempt this.

Thanks for your offer too.

Miles

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2 hours ago, MilesA said:

Secondly, presumably the capillary tube for the Temp gauge needs to be unbolted from the thermo housing and then fed back through the bulkhead and out of the panel. Reverse for installing into the new panel. However, my capillary tube is pretty solidly embedded in the housing and don’t want to break it!

So is there a cheat’s solution by unscrewing the gauge bezel which holds the glass in on the Temp  gauge (I have done this previously when dismantling an old fuel gauge)? This would avoid having to disconnect the temp capillary tube (and copper oil tube although I am a bit less worried about this).

Thanks as ever.

Miles

The bulb on my tube was stuck in the housing also. As I recall I removed the housing and thermostat and was able to tap and wiggle the tube out.

There is a slight lip on the gauge itself after you remove the bezel and seal. I haven't tried it but it might just fit through the hole without the bezel. The bezel is crimped on and does not unscrew. Best to get the bulb free imo.

Tom

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Remove the housing, block up the various holes turn it upside down and fill it with diesel and leave to penetrate. 

Rgds Ian

PS Before you replace the bulb get one of the Revington brass adapters. 

Edited by Ian Vincent
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Thanks chaps for all the useful thoughts.

I think I will have a close look at the gauges before going to the hassle of degunking the temp bulb. Absent diesel, past posts suggest that kettle descaler and wine / cider vinegar are good alternatives. 

Ian, thanks for the tip about the brass adapter. If I get the b****r out i will definitely get an adapter.

Any thoughts on order of work would still be appreciated.

Miles  

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TBH it is not an easy task even when installing a new loom so and old brittle one could open a whole can of worms, I actually  almost created a mini loom on the back of the panel before installation. Check out old ebay listing as soeone was offering a made up centre panel with gauges et al but the picture showed how many cables were pre attached saving you work in a confined space. Also getting to the wing nuts that hold it on is a exercise in futility. Loosen thermo bulb first then the wing nuts. Without that you are screwed.

You need to mark each cable in turn where it came from for re-installation. As in all things take baby steps and keep them simple and record them all as it could be months before you can get back to them. Take many photos with can phone from all sides to help re-installing the panel.

DO NOT JUST UNDO EVERY CABLE till it's free. or else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

If I were you I would do this in stages and come back after each stage completed.

And no, you cannot remove the chrome cover to pull gauge through, end of!!!!! Also bare in mind that you ten have to get the whole capialliary tube through the car to the dash board without cracking the tube!!!!! If you have the correct coil after the bulkhead as original it would need to be either straightened out or wound through like a screw. so good luck with that one!!!!

As an end result you may have to think about replacing the whole wiring loom depending on what you encounter. Cracked insulation is not the best to re-install. If it ain't broke???????. 

Another way to keep car running would be to cut the vinyl cover off using a scalpel, mask up the gauges and slacken the switches. Carefully rub down, mask off and paint in place.  Again this will be a long painstaking process but you can still run the car for the shopping trips. Paint and a hot air gun might work after a few attempts. Time is on your side what else do you have to do.

Just a few thoughts get in touch and I can help over the phone or whats app.

Rod

Edited by Rodbr
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Thanks Rod.

Even though I am super slow and super methodical (because I am not burdened with any great experience) your comments suggest my hesitancy todate was well placed!

I already have the photo of the rear of a restored panel from the ebay listing (it is for a L/H car I think). I have started marking it up and cross referring to the wiring diagram (although I know the existing cable are not all original colours just to add to the fun!). My panel seems to be secured by only the bottom two wing nuts. Fortunately, my capillary is coiled on the cockpit side of the bulkhead.

So, we will see.

If I do decide to tackle this, thank you for your kind offer of support.

Miles

Edited by MilesA
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When I did my instrument panel the temperature gauge was most definitely the main challenge. The bulb was stuck, it finally came out after a week or two of soaking in descaler then diesel and then enamel acetate, when it came out it looked fine but sadly when tested it was no longer working. So definitely tackle the guage first

I fitted a brass adapter and as a temporary measure wired up a spare gauge from my TR6 which is still there, on my list of jobs is getting the TR3 guage converted to electricity. Can anyone recomended company?

George

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Many years ago when my capillary broke and repairs/replacements were not easily or cheaply available I obtained an early TR4 (electrical) gauge and replaced the dial with the one from the TR3.  The early TR4 gauges have domed glass like the earlier cars but I guess they will also be hard to find now.

It now looks identical from inside the car, the only difference being the electrical wire under the bonnet rather than the capillary.

You will also need a voltage stabiliser as fitted to TR4 onwards.

Mike

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Miles.

If your capillary tube is coiled on the cockpit side, then it's in the wrong place ! The coil is there to absorb vibration / movement of the engine with respect to the body.

Bob.

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Hi Bob

Well, a PO or more likely the original restorer was responsible for placing the coil in the wrong place!

I have often wondered why there was a coil at all in the capillary in the engine bay as shown in all the books. So what is the effect of the coil being on the wrong side of the bulkhead or no coil at all? Some risk of damage to the capillary from engine vibration at the point it passes through the grommet because there is no flex in capillary? It's not exactly a solid or firm fitting grommet in my case (one of the many air vents into the cockpit!). Or some other consequence?

Miles

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With a coil between the moving engine & the fixed body any movement is distributed over a long length of the tube where that length is in the form of the coil. with no coil any movement causes the tube to follow it over a much shorter distance, & make it more likely to eventually fracture.

Bob.

By the way, I have dismantled two of the capilliary type gauges, both definately TR ones, & the bezel does come off as I described above.

However you still may not be able to get the can through the hole in the dash, as the remains a narrow lip.

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Hello Miles,

If you end up breaking the copper pipe all is not lost.

Here is a detailed discussion about how to repair it and refill it.

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=232995

Playing about with ether…

Great fun.

Here is a quote from the thread:

“…there is some inherent danger you will ignite vapors and blow yourself up…”

Charlie D.

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6 hours ago, Lebro said:

With a coil between the moving engine & the fixed body any movement is distributed over a long length of the tube where that length is in the form of the coil. with no coil any movement causes the tube to follow it over a much shorter distance, & make it more likely to eventually fracture.

Bob.

By the way, I have dismantled two of the capilliary type gauges, both definately TR ones, & the bezel does come off as I described above.

However you still may not be able to get the can through the hole in the dash, as the remains a narrow lip.

As G Denson said above, the gauge will absolutely not go through the hole. I double checked with my spares.

Tom

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