Jump to content

Recommended Posts

The ride height on my TR3 as measured from the top of the tyre to the top edge of the wheel arch is as follows:-

Front     1 and 3/4" inches

Rear      1/2"

Is this about right/normal or too low at the rear. I run 165 x 15 Radial tyres on 4.5" wire wheels. Any thoughts?

I think the rear springs may need changing as the car bounces/bangs a bit over rough surfaces. I've recently changed the rear shocks, drop links and fitted new shackle poly  bushes.

If the springs do need replacing what is the best tool to lever out the front spring pin. I thought to use a pry bar with V grooved end to get under the 5/16" bolt head, again any thoughts?.

All advice gratefully received as always.

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bouncing and banging from the rear is nearly always loose shocks. They need to be very tight. Did you change to cap nuts and get some serious torque on them. 3/8” x 1” 3/4 from memory.

if that spring bolt is stuck........you will often need divine intervention.

Fingers crossed you find it’s been out not too long ago. When it goes back use as much copperslip as you can make stay there.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Iain

I used Nyloc nuts to fix the shocks, but it is an issue getting a socket on them to really torque them. I assume you mean a 3/8" drive and a long socket?

Rob

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, RobTR3 said:

The ride height on my TR3 as measured from the top of the tyre to the top edge of the wheel arch is as follows:-

Front     1 and 3/4" inches

Rear      1/2"

Is this about right/normal or too low at the rear. I run 165 x 15 Radial tyres on 4.5" wire wheels. Any thoughts?

I think the rear springs may need changing as the car bounces/bangs a bit over rough surfaces. I've recently changed the rear shocks, drop links and fitted new shackle poly  bushes.

If the springs do need replacing what is the best tool to lever out the front spring pin. I thought to use a pry bar with V grooved end to get under the 5/16" bolt head, again any thoughts?.

All advice gratefully received as always.

Rob

Rob,

Removing the rear spring chassis pins are sometimes a challenge too far, why not fit spring clamps to the springs which stiffen up the leaf motion ie: as if a stiffer spring was fitted...which is what you need. Old school technology that works for an old school suspension design. Cost of a few pounds per spring and easy to fit in situ, as I remember Stuart at Watermill has them fitted to his TR4a with it's live rear axle, he may advise where he got them or if he made them himself.

Mick Richards 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very difficult to loosen this front pin. I had my drivers side replaced by Moores of Brighton , a ST agent, and it was years late when I found that they had cut out a square of the sill to allow the spring to slide sideways. This was a major ST dealer !!

When I needed to remove a spring years later I was able to remove all the body fixings to the chassis, loosen the steering column and jack up the rear body enough to be able to slide the spring off. All my fixing bolts are stainless steel so I does not take long. But if you have the original nuts and bolts this may be more of a challenge and you could end up with the disc cutter on the inner sill. It does not have to be very high for it to work.

If you do try and move yours be prepared for damage to the chassis. The final answer is a stainless steel pin made by one of our suppliers.

I hope you have plenty of room in the garage.

Richard  & B.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for your comments Mick and an interesting suggestion which I will follow up with Stuart via a PM.

Richard, the more I hear about the difficulties the less likely I am to 'give it a go'. Having said that there is nothing lost in trying, if it won't move I'll leave it alone, I certainly won't be cutting into sills or damaging the chassis.

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RobTR3 said:

Iain

I used Nyloc nuts to fix the shocks, but it is an issue getting a socket on them to really torque them. I assume you mean a 3/8" drive and a long socket?

Rob

 

I use a six point socket with a series of long extensions going right across under the car. I can then tighten the nuts from a comfortable position through the opposite wheel arch rather than struggle under the car. 
it’s very difficult to get them tight enough from a restricted position under the car. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RobTR3 said:

Iain

I used Nyloc nuts to fix the shocks, but it is an issue getting a socket on them to really torque them. I assume you mean a 3/8" drive and a long socket?

Rob

 

No, cap head screws (to take allen key) I used an allen key type socket on the end of an extension.

Bob.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Richardtr3a said:

It is very difficult to loosen this front pin. I had my drivers side replaced by Moores of Brighton , a ST agent, and it was years late when I found that they had cut out a square of the sill to allow the spring to slide sideways. This was a major ST dealer !!

When I needed to remove a spring years later I was able to remove all the body fixings to the chassis, loosen the steering column and jack up the rear body enough to be able to slide the spring off. All my fixing bolts are stainless steel so I does not take long. But if you have the original nuts and bolts this may be more of a challenge and you could end up with the disc cutter on the inner sill. It does not have to be very high for it to work.

If you do try and move yours be prepared for damage to the chassis. The final answer is a stainless steel pin made by one of our suppliers.

I hope you have plenty of room in the garage.

Richard  & B.

My experience of stainless steel pins was that they were made cheaply from a material that was not strong enough compared to the original heat treated items and thus bent - Pain enough to remove a rusted pin but one that is bent and will not push through the chassis is at another level of irritation.  The car I first came across this on had the body off the chassis and the springs removed - Just thought I'd remove and grease these lovely shiny pins that moved about a 1/8" then bound up solid in the chassis tube.  Ended up cutting them off at the chassis face, pushing them through by finger force alone and replacing with very greased, UK made heat treated items.

Moss no longer offer the stainless pin nor does Revington.

Soak with your preferred penetrating oil for a day before starting.

Do  not forget that the head of the shackle pin is drilled and tapped to 5/16 unf so a slide hammer could be used. (Exhaust will need removing)  Alternatively screw in a length of studding, fit a short tube spacer over the head of the shackle pin, (pile of sockets will do)  fit a THICK washer and try to pull the pin out by tightening a nut on the studding against the washer and tube.    A crow bar can be used to push pin out from the inner sill side - A strip of metal between the inner sill and the crow bar will reduce risk of damage.  Be sure the nut is on the pin thread and the washer is removed if you intend to lever against the threaded bit.  The nut will save the thread if you slip.

 

Top Tip from - Bodges 'R' Us     On shock absorber bolts.....If the bolts have been loose, the hole in the shock and chassis will be worn - Ream out to 10 mm and go up to M10 hardened cap bolts and nylocs, these are 1/2 mm bigger diameter than the original 0.375" or  3/8" items. 

like this perhaps  https://www.accu.co.uk/en/8-cap-head-screws#elasticsearch_id_feature_854362=854362_1&elasticsearch_id_feature_854347=854347_16&elasticsearch_id_feature_854315=854315_160&elasticsearch_id_feature_854542=854542_161&id_elasticsearch_category=8&orderby=ranking&orderway=asc

Cheers

Peter W

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m with Peter. Stainless steel is not a suitable material for this application and should be avoided. 
Commercial stainless bolts are only really suitable for cosmetic and lightly loaded applications. They tend to gall very easily unless slathered with anti galling paste too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Soak with your preferred penetrating oil for a day before starting.

....or preferably a week.
Plus Gas is the stuff. WD40 gets used by some but doesn’t cut the mustard as it is formulated to be a water dispersant; hence WD. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Drewmotty said:

I’m with Peter. Stainless steel is not a suitable material for this application and should be avoided. 
Commercial stainless bolts are only really suitable for cosmetic and lightly loaded applications. They tend to gall very easily unless slathered with anti galling paste too. 

I was lucky that I did not go down the s/s route for the shackle pin. I tried to move the pin on a bare chassis and it would not budge, so I gave up and fitted the springs out in the open and fitted the body later..

Good luck

Richard & B

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Lebro said:

No, cap head screws (to take allen key) I used an allen key type socket on the end of an extension.

Bob.

Thats correct Bob, its the easiest way to get some grunt on the blighters! The bolts being 3/8" UNF Thread. and I think 1" 3/4 long? Bob can you remember what you used?

Iain

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for your comments.

Peter W - very helpful comments on extracting the pin. Still undecided on giving it a go!

Lebro & Iain - Point taken on cap bolts, I will change them, are they 3/8" UNF x 1/3/4"?

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2020 at 5:51 PM, RobTR3 said:

The ride height on my TR3 as measured from the top of the tyre to the top edge of the wheel arch is as follows:-

Front     1 and 3/4" inches

Rear      1/2"

Is this about right/normal or too low at the rear. I run 165 x 15 Radial tyres on 4.5" wire wheels. Any thoughts?

I think the rear springs may need changing as the car bounces/bangs a bit over rough surfaces. I've recently changed the rear shocks, drop links and fitted new shackle poly  bushes.

If the springs do need replacing what is the best tool to lever out the front spring pin. I thought to use a pry bar with V grooved end to get under the 5/16" bolt head, again any thoughts?.

All advice gratefully received as always.

Rob

I have been worrying about my ride height this year. I was close to removing the rear springs and sending them away for refurbishment to Birmingham. I was talking to one of the main TR specialists and he explained that if you raise the back the front will go lower and vice versa. Also if you pack out one front spring  to make the front  level,  to opposite side rear spring will move lower. The whole chassis will pivot around the center. So instead of taking off the rear springs I first fitted some second hand front springs which measured 9.75 on the bench. This has reduced the clearance at the front and improved the rear by increasing the ride height a bit. 

However Both front and rear tyres are inside the wheel arch with no clearance over the tyre. 

This morning I measured the chassis to the ground in the center front and it was 3 inches which seems very low. Rob How much does yours measure ?

This spring dilemma does not have an easy answer.

Richard & B.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RobTR3 said:

Thanks to all for your comments.

Peter W - very helpful comments on extracting the pin. Still undecided on giving it a go!

Lebro & Iain - Point taken on cap bolts, I will change them, are they 3/8" UNF x 1/3/4"?

Rob

You can get cap head bolts in grade 12.9 which allows you to bang them up really tight.

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Richardtr3a said:

 

This morning I measured the chassis to the ground in the center front and it was 3 inches which seems very low. Rob How much does yours measure ?

160mm under the front crossmember with 165/80 tyres is about right.

Sounds like you need new springs all round. 

Edited by Drewmotty
Link to post
Share on other sites

 Thanks Mike, Do you know what springs you have and do they have spacers?

So it looks as if my front springs need the RTR springs refitted  or the spacers with the second hand springs.

Has any one else got a measurement.

Thanks Richard & B 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Richard,

I fitted new Moss springs about 15 years ago.  Their information was that the springs were longer than the originals so the spacers should be left out.  This I did and am quite happy with the ride height.  Since then I have noticed many cars that appear to be too high at the front so assume they have kept the spacers with the new springs.

I believe there are polyurethane washers available for the springs in varying thicknesses which may be of some help.

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

Richard

I just measured the ride height on my car and they are as follows :

Front crossmember         Slightly over 6"

Cruciform at centre         As above just over 6"

Rear- Main chassis rail(s) in line with bottom of spring - O/S  just over 7" ; N/S bang on 7"

I still think the rear springs are a bit soft and the car is sitting bit lower than it should (at the rear)

Your measurement at the front seems way too low.

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites

Richard

I just measured the ride height on my car and they are as follows :

Front crossmember         Slightly over 6"

Cruciform at centre         As above just over 6"

Rear- Main chassis rail(s) in line with bottom of spring - O/S  just over 7" ; N/S bang on 7"

Should have said 165/80 tyres on mine as well.

Mike Ellis - Thanks for your comments on easing out pins, very encouraging.

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Richardtr3a said:

 Thanks Mike, Do you know what springs you have and do they have spacers?

So it looks as if my front springs need the RTR springs refitted  or the spacers with the second hand springs.

Has any one else got a measurement.

Thanks Richard & B 

Richard,

The original factory front springs you are using, which are 9.75" long should be fitted using the original aluminium spacers above them.  

As you can see from the attached PDF of the service manual page your springs are standard free length at 9.75" and are probably RH helix.  If they were original factory competition they would be 9.19" free length with a LH helix (that makes identity on the build track a shed load easier when fitting pairs) and should also be fitted using the aluminium spacer as original.

Cheers

Peter W

502602 WSM Group4 32.pdf

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.