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noise from the drive train


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47 minutes ago, Casar66 said:

Bruce 

to 1:)

-no, the hub was loose (more or less). My last post was wrong, the new hub was very easy to take apart, the old one, from what we took the key was very tough to disassemble. I guess, the spacer has to less tension so it became play. And the key was wrongly not hardened and so the key way was still fine.

 

to 2.)

Honestly, I do no remember. The work was done by a professional garage and I was just watching. They told me, that everything looks surprisingly very fine (because the key were so "soft"). Is it possible that they forgot to grease? Or are the bearings sealed and greased for lifetime?

 

 

Casar 66

Some years ago we took an original BL rear hub apart and we used the correct Churchill Tool to split the hub, it tool a massive amount of effort. when finally the taper split, there was evidence that the tapers had cold welded, a usual problem with BL tapers. The question in my view that needs to be answered is: what condition are the bearings in? and what is the torque loading for the big wheel hub nut, as some of these hub nuts need 200 newtons and that is tight!!!!!!!  I do not know what Bastuck use or construction of their hubs  but Lamora another German company use CV hub bearings same as VW for their TR rear hubs and these are much bigger than the BL originals.

Bruce.

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I do not know what kind of bearings Bastuck used.. In the dimensions the hubs are identical to the original ones. And I also do not now the condition of the bearings. But before I will open the hubs I would go for a new one. But first of all I need to confirm if the noise comes 100% from the hub. 

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I have had a noisy Bastuk hub, it was wherrr wherr, took the hub apart with a press, not that much effort was needed, and found the smaller inner bearing cup was pitted and looked as if the bearing was tightened to much but was free to turn when fitted.

I also noticed that the outer hub was not a good match for the taper shaft, and have used now some grinding paste to match the two together. If I just push them together now I have to knock the wheel flange off with a knock, so it must be a much better fit now.

I have bought some Timken bearings to assemble it but not done it yet, refitted one of the older hubs to keep me mobile.

A grease fitting can be fitted to the hub and some grease applied, but not sure how much should be fitted, but also the seals will not let the air out, and may push the seals out. I have a picture of one I fitted to an old hub if you need one.

Here is a picture of the bearing race, I also noted that the rollers had not made a good track on the cup, so suspect the bearing to not be very good alignment. These are not Timken bearings they Powertune.

The other damage to the cup I did trying to get the cup off.

IMG_2779 (2).jpg

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mmh, have just talked to an old stager. First I want to make sure that it is not the diff or gearbox. So I will remove the drive shafts and will listen with running engine and gear if the diff or the OD or gearbox are ok. if these parts are ok it must be the hub. Then I will going on driving the car and listen if the noise become louder or different. If so I will have a look for a new one, wether an reconditioned old one (but the expert gave me a warning) or a new pair of improved hubs from goodparts or cosworth style. But I will not touch the Bastuck one. I do not trust it and I am not experienced enough to trust myself also to make an overhauling by myself.

 

@John, would you be so nice and send me the picture with the grease fitting? 

many thanks, Carsten

 

Edited by Casar66
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On 3/29/2020 at 4:31 PM, John L said:

I have had a noisy Bastuk hub, it was wherrr wherr, took the hub apart with a press, not that much effort was needed, and found the smaller inner bearing cup was pitted and looked as if the bearing was tightened to much but was free to turn when fitted.

I also noticed that the outer hub was not a good match for the taper shaft, and have used now some grinding paste to match the two together. If I just push them together now I have to knock the wheel flange off with a knock, so it must be a much better fit now.

I have bought some Timken bearings to assemble it but not done it yet, refitted one of the older hubs to keep me mobile.

A grease fitting can be fitted to the hub and some grease applied, but not sure how much should be fitted, but also the seals will not let the air out, and may push the seals out. I have a picture of one I fitted to an old hub if you need one.

Here is a picture of the bearing race, I also noted that the rollers had not made a good track on the cup, so suspect the bearing to not be very good alignment. These are not Timken bearings they Powertune.

The other damage to the cup I did trying to get the cup off.

IMG_2779 (2).jpg

Powertune I believe is just a Brand name???? I would be very wary of anything that they supposedly manufacture because a lot of their products come from Taiwan. This country is not known for quality and looking at your race just confirms my thinking!!!! On some of their packaging they show the union flag I think to give the idea that they are of British manufacture???

Bruce.

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Yes, if I will stay with my TR6 for longer I will get the Cosworth hubs. This week I will try a reconditioned hub just to see if the noise come from the hub. Then I will drive this season with that hub and if my love with the englisch car last longer than expected I use the wintertime for the cosworth. But only then.

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  • 2 years later...

2 and a half year later and after max. 3000 mls - I had to remove my gearbox - I felt play at the same side of the new "reconditioned" hub. I got a new one (this time I went for the expensive uprated one) and so I decided to open the reconditioned hub just to see if was it greased enough or if I was going to leave my rear wheel due broken stub axle. To my surprise there was a lo of grease in the hub, there bearings and the surfaces looked pretty nice and even the woodruff key was at the right place. Here are some pictures comments welcome (the second, rounded woodruff key is from my Baustuck hub after roughly 300ms!)

IMG_20221107_185952742.thumb.jpg.4477b4388a53308d19d1cb171ce141b3.jpgIMG_20221107_190025974.thumb.jpg.2af368be4363071d94f9b4310905026c.jpgIMG_20221107_190047223.thumb.jpg.698f0f1027d9c64823dc38096576a2f7.jpgIMG_20221107_190036301.thumb.jpg.666bb0605e09d1ce46d69e69674b82b3.jpgIMG_20221107_185837081.thumb.jpg.537b3ef01454cf3f6ae05ddfe0ffa010.jpgIMG_20221107_185852541.thumb.jpg.73871d47416aa0cd444f56913074edec.jpgIMG_20221107_185807031.thumb.jpg.47437f19bda6fde3a751d9d93ce0ab98.jpgIMG_20221107_185737302.thumb.jpg.fecfb997d4927709a912ed84582d906d.jpg

 

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John, don't worry please. It was not the grease (there was enough still) that gives the play to the hub. After dismanteling it (correct english?) I am pretty sure that if only I had tightened the big nut a little more, the hub would have been good for a few thousand more miles. I guess at least.

Anyway now have build in that uprated design aka Revingtonban others. 

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On 3/29/2020 at 10:09 AM, Casar66 said:

I am wondering if it is possible to grease the hub without dismantle it? That hub is only some years old (from Bastuck). After a very short while it became play. Then we disassembled it with a press ( a violent job).  The result: the key was not hardened and worked into the groove of the axle shaft (see photo). We then used the key of the old hub. But I drove the TR only for around 1000miles average a year and always with the  top down. Two years ago I have to take the TR during rainfall and it was then when I noticed that noise from the drive train but I blamed it on the unfamiliar driving with the top closed. After this years winterbreak and my first roll out with closed top it was clear, that the noise is not normal. But it is stable it do not became worse or different during the last years.

So my (maybe stupid) idea is: to open the hub (the big nut on the axle shaft) and try to put grease into it and see if the running noise becomes better or to drill a hole in the hub housing and insert a grease nipple.

And if both (stupid) ideas do not work I would go for a reconditioned hub assembly from e.g. rimmer. The question then is: will they accept the Bastuck hub for refund. To overhaul the Bastuck hub is a no go. 

If I would use my TR more often I would go for cosworth hubs or goodparts.

Hub-key.jpg

That all points to me that the taper is not a precision piece of machining for the key to be damaged like that? It shows that there has been movement on the male and female part of the taper.

Bruce.

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mmh, not surw if I got you right, Bruce. With "taper" you mean the axle itself? the damged key (the rounded one) is not that from this reconditioned hub, it is from a as new Bastuk-hub bought some years ago after very few miles (<300)

What you can feel (and not see) is the allround-edge (red arrows) what worries me. Maybe that could have been led to a break?1986815993_Bildschirmfoto2022-11-08um11_59_44.png.47495f3699076e518126684f51c7058d.png

 

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