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Where has this Disaster Come From?


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In China there are dozens of bat SARS-like viruses that are studied to assess thier threat.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

It is  far more likely that infection of a human has occured in the wild or through diet. A lab escape is much less likely and suggesting a deliberatelt engineered virus is malicious fakery

Peter

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There seems to be enough evidence to point to the wet market in Wuhan, remember SARS, originated in China, I guess these things will happen but what is unforgivable is the action of the Chinese government officials post discovery, their denial and lies will cost the world economy Trillions of dollars and worse, thousands of lives.  China wants to be part of the civilised world ( is the west civilised? more than most) yet the actions of the present and previous governments, Tiannaman Square, illegal trade in wild animals (Chinese penchant for a tigers penis - why??) Uigher re-education programme, bullying its neighbours in the South China Sea, pollution to name but a few.  And we have turned a blind eye because of money, Chinese investment to be exact, I don't know how much of Britain's infrastructure is owned by Chinese interests - interested to find out.  I hope when all this is over China is made to pay for the financial and emotional pain they have visited on the world.  I found the following in a Chinese journal extolling the fact that China had learned from SARS,

Please, do not slow down our steps towards a brighter future. The SARS pandemic promoted the establishment of a more open government, an improved public health system, and, even a healthier life style. It called us to respect life, science, common sense, and rights. They are all the cornerstones for the realization of a “Chinese Dream”.

God help us!!

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Denial and lies?   Denial and inaction by the UK's Johnson Gov!   Trumps outright lies!

And it was Chinese scientists who got out the genome of Covid-29, very quickly, and published it for the world.

And it has been successive Tory Governments who have refused to invest in new nuclear power, and have invited  - INVITED - th Chinese to do so, when they could not get the French in.   Suddenly they find they CAN spend money!

Daily Mail 22/11/19  "Corbyn's Blueprint to bankrupt Britain." after the Labour manifesto of the latst general election

Daily Mail  12/3/2020 "Dr.Feelgood to the rescue - Rishi's marvellous medicine!"

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I never thought to see the day you would quote the DM John :lol:

 

(Covid 29 ?- What do you know that we don't?)

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Just read in Express about Hantavirus in China its reported the virus is completely different to COVID-19

A man on a bus died and was tested positive for hantavirus, a completely different virus to COVID-19 which is currently, according to express spreading . Other passengers have since been tested for hantavirus and are showing symptoms. 

Edited by Derek Hurford
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Iain you are right, I should know better. That’s the trouble having a poor sleep pattern and then indulging in  limited reading following these Headlines.

Express Headlines

“Hantavirus: The disturbing way new deadly virus in China is spreading”

“A NEWLY reported death in China from a virus completely different to COVID-19 has recently surfaced, sparking fears“.

 

Edited by Derek Hurford
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As the subject of money has cropped up it is rather amazing how the chancellor has suddenly found all this extra money to fend off a virus that will in all likelihood kill what in reality is a  very small % of the population.   So with a population of somewhere between 64 and 66 million people in the UK  we could expect a  1% death rate of 640,000.  However, if our experts are to be believed then it may actually be in the region of 6,400 deaths  or 0.1%  of the population that we can expect to result from this virus.    The Chancellor has so far committed  £30 Billion  to fighting this virus which works out at roughly  just under £47 per person. or to put it another way it  will make each death equivalent to over £4.6 m!. 

Having said all that, if i were living in London or any other major urban area I would be taking the Govt's advice very seriously indeed. The temporary hospital they are setting up at the EXCEL centre with 4000 beds is indication of how serious this outbreak will become.  No doubt other cities will follow shortly. 

hoges. 

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16 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Denial and lies?   Denial and inaction by the UK's Johnson Gov!   Trumps outright lies!

And it was Chinese scientists who got out the genome of Covid-29, very quickly, and published it for the world.

 

You are right John, they did, but, prior to their identifying the CV19 genome and publishing it, it was the Chinese gov't who suppressed any talk, publication or warnings of the existence of the CV19 virus.  This to the point of literally closing down the Doctor who tried to warn the world.

 

BoJo may not be the most honest or the best man for the job, but, right now, he is what we have. 

God forbid it was JC!

Edited by wjgco
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6 hours ago, Derek Hurford said:

Iain you are right, I should know better. That’s the trouble having a poor sleep pattern and then indulging in  limited reading following these Headlines.

Express Headlines

“Hantavirus: The disturbing way new deadly virus in China is spreading”

“A NEWLY reported death in China from a virus completely different to COVID-19 has recently surfaced, sparking fears“.

 

Derek, Me too, until a retored GP pal suggested melatonin (3mg) 20 min before lights out. It is a hormone that we stop producing as we age, not a drug. I use it for toe weeeks than a week off, usually.  From Amazon or ebay, Puritnas Pride.  Peter

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12 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

How many beds could you get in the NEC? It is sitting empty at the moment.

Mick

Surely the problem is not just the space though, it's the furniture, staff, and other resources.

Pete

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1 hour ago, Paul Hogan said:

As the subject of money has cropped up it is rather amazing how the chancellor has suddenly found all this extra money to fend off a virus that will in all likelihood kill what in reality is a  very small % of the population.   So with a population of somewhere between 64 and 66 million people in the UK  we could expect a  1% death rate of 640,000.  However, if our experts are to be believed then it may actually be in the region of 6,400 deaths  or 0.1%  of the population that we can expect to result from this virus.    The Chancellor has so far committed  £30 Billion  to fighting this virus which works out at roughly  just under £47 per person. or to put it another way it  will make each death equivalent to over £4.6 m!. 

Having said all that, if i were living in London or any other major urban area I would be taking the Govt's advice very seriously indeed. The temporary hospital they are setting up at the EXCEL centre with 4000 beds is indication of how serious this outbreak will become.  No doubt other cities will follow shortly. 

hoges. 

Hoges, Impeccable logic, unless you become one of the 640,000.  Alternatively, the more die the less expensive each becomes. Someoen will know the value of a life for insurance claims etc, and £1M for a middle-aged family breadwinner seems reasonabl. So to balance the books 2.4 million need to succumbe. Judging from the London tube crowding we could be heading that way. The 1% death rate was with functioning medical support, not an overwhelmed NHS. Peter

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23 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

How many beds could you get in the NEC? It is sitting empty at the moment.

Mick

You can rest assured that this location will be on the (long)  list of possible venues to re-purpose.

..... Andy 

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1 hour ago, Paul Hogan said:

As the subject of money has cropped up it is rather amazing how the chancellor has suddenly found all this extra money to fend off a virus that will in all likelihood kill what in reality is a  very small % of the population.   So with a population of somewhere between 64 and 66 million people in the UK  we could expect a  1% death rate of 640,000.  However, if our experts are to be believed then it may actually be in the region of 6,400 deaths  or 0.1%  of the population that we can expect to result from this virus.    The Chancellor has so far committed  £30 Billion  to fighting this virus which works out at roughly  just under £47 per person. or to put it another way it  will make each death equivalent to over £4.6 m!. 

Having said all that, if i were living in London or any other major urban area I would be taking the Govt's advice very seriously indeed. The temporary hospital they are setting up at the EXCEL centre with 4000 beds is indication of how serious this outbreak will become.  No doubt other cities will follow shortly. 

hoges. 

Hoges - isn't 0.1% of 64 million actually 64,000 (not 6,400)?

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1 hour ago, Mick Forey said:

How many beds could you get in the NEC? It is sitting empty at the moment.

Mick

They have already said that they are planning to use the NEC as a hospital.

Edited by SuzanneH
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Where it comes from might seem to some of little importance at this time, it’s where it’s going perhaps. 
If you are a person determined as high risk you are require to self isolation for 12 weeks. 

3 months is a long time. What then Coronavirus is over no not at all, just dampened down the curve. As in Singapore it’s likely new peak, another 12 weeks?

I appreciate its not a choice, but three weeks no problem, then distance yourself fine but 12 weeks,  then a possibly further 12 weeks for someone with a life limiting illness is a high price.

I understand that going out and catching it would take up time of a doctor and thats selfish, although having talked to two doctors they have in so many words suggested you will not be a priority, but how would one feel if asking  someone to do your shopping, or pick up prescriptions they got it, I suggest devastated whether a family member or a volunteer.

You don’t have a choice,  stay at home no walks no keeping your distance total isolation. Thats possibly the hardest pill amongst those pills you are already taking.

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Not everyones cup of tea but to add an alternative view to the ongoing discussion,

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/03/peter-hitchens-is-shutting-down-britain-with-unprecedented-curbs-on-ancient-liberties-really-the-bes.html

We have just had the very sad death of a young healthy woman who had Covd19, that is probably half the number of healthy young adults tat died from recreational drug use. 

Like Hitchens, from day one I have been amazed at the response, we are probably crippling the world's economy for the next generation, and the hysteria is being well and truly fanned by the main stream media, I have kept asking myself why? and the only conclusion I can come to is two fold, the embarrassment to the government if the NHS were overwhelmed and secondly the break down in social order if there was widespread panic.  Here we are stockpiling toilet paper and canned soup, in America it's guns and bullets.  

Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I hold China responsible, cheers, Andrew 

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42 minutes ago, AndrewMAshton said:

Not everyones cup of tea but to add an alternative view to the ongoing discussion,

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/03/peter-hitchens-is-shutting-down-britain-with-unprecedented-curbs-on-ancient-liberties-really-the-bes.html

We have just had the very sad death of a young healthy woman who had Covd19, that is probably half the number of healthy young adults tat died from recreational drug use. 

Like Hitchens, from day one I have been amazed at the response, we are probably crippling the world's economy for the next generation, and the hysteria is being well and truly fanned by the main stream media, I have kept asking myself why? and the only conclusion I can come to is two fold, the embarrassment to the government if the NHS were overwhelmed and secondly the break down in social order if there was widespread panic.  Here we are stockpiling toilet paper and canned soup, in America it's guns and bullets.  

Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I hold China responsible, cheers, Andrew 

What a load of nonsense. SARS-CoV-2 is new to humans, we have no immunity apart from the innate type and that is not doing the job at all well. The deaths reported to  date are occurring in nations able to mount heroic medical interventions.Without social isolation medical hlep will be overwhelmed in UK and the death rare will soar. Ina very few weeks countries with weak and marginal medical  facilties will show the true death rate ..   You will then see the rate we would have here without social isolation. Most of us choose life over wealth if forced to make the choice, And h=that is what SARs_CoV-2 is doing, and will continue to do so, possibly for years.

https://theconversation.com/four-ways-the-coronavirus-pandemic-could-now-unfold-133979

- the globalised economy doesn.t look at all clever in most of those scenarios.

Peter

 

 

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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24 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said:

What a load of nonsense. SARS-CoV-2 is new to humans, we have no immunity apart from the innate type and that is not doing the job at all well. The deaths reported to  date are occurring in nations able to mount heroic medical interventions.Without social isolation medical hlep will be overwhelmed in UK and the death rare will soar. Ina very few weeks countries with weak and marginal medical  facilties will show the true death rate ..   You will then see the rate we would have here without social isolation. Most of us choose life over wealth if forced to make the choice, And h=that is what SARs_CoV-2 is doing, and will continue to do so, possibly for years.

https://theconversation.com/four-ways-the-coronavirus-pandemic-could-now-unfold-133979

- the globalised economy doesn.t look at all clever in most of those scenarios.

Peter

 

 

 

Peter, I completely agree with you.

Given the nature of this global viral pandemic, we need proper science. We need to take the advice of those who understand the true nature of the problem the world faces, as opposed to acting on the opinions of those who don't/can't fully comprehend it.

People such as chief medical officer Chris Witty have the knowledge to lead us out of these dark times.

Health beats wealth every time.

Nigel

PS:  Trump risks killing a lot of US citizens with his approach to the crisis.

 

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4 minutes ago, Nigel Triumph said:

Peter, I completely agree with you.

Given the nature of this global viral pandemic, we need proper science. We need to take the advice of those who understand the true nature of the problem the world faces, as opposed to acting on the opinions of those who don't/can't fully comprehend it.

People such as chief medical officer Chris Witty have the knowledge to lead us out of these dark times.

Health beats wealth every time.

Nigel

PS:  Trump risks killing a lot of US citizens with his approach to the crisis.

 

Nigel, Yes we must heed these epidemiologists. Only they have the skills to get us through  this growing catastrophe relatively unscathed. However I do reckon thay need to pay more heed to "vitamin"D3: it controls our innate immune defences and no nation comes up to muster when physiological criteria of adequacy (hence supplements ) are applied. Peter

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5 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

How many beds could you get in the NEC? It is sitting empty at the moment.

Mick

What about Stratford Racecourse?

Graham

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