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TR4 front sidelamps


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Somehow the live feed for my o/s front side lamp has become detached (wire snapped away from holder). Do I need to remove the grille to get the side lamp shell out or is there a sneaky way to do it? Any hints or suggestions would be appreciated. I’ll probably upgrade them to led while I’m at it. Like many of you, I’m self isolating, so can’t take it anywhere for advice

Andy

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Andy - if you take the lens off ( prise around the chrome bezel with a small blunt screwdriver to lift it out of its rubber surround), you will find the unit is attached to the grill with some self tappers and once removed, you can pull the whole unit forward and out to work on it - the connections are basic bullet connectors and they can easily come loose

cheers Rich 

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1 hour ago, Ocheye said:

Somehow the live feed for my o/s front side lamp has become detached (wire snapped away from holder). Do I need to remove the grille to get the side lamp shell out or is there a sneaky way to do it? Any hints or suggestions would be appreciated. I’ll probably upgrade them to led while I’m at it. Like many of you, I’m self isolating, so can’t take it anywhere for advice

Andy

If it is the side lamp not the indicator you are trying to fix the lens is a bayonet fitment.  Turn anti clockwise about 1/2 turn and the lens will fall/pull off.  The chrome rim is removable but you will need to glue it back on.

Peter W

image.thumb.png.51873cf89fe0889b921c2028a9da1988.png

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Thanks guys.
To recap, I twist the lens and then undo the self tappers. Is that correct? I’d hate to break anything.
I’d moved all the wires to install my fab new S/S shroud/cowl which is when it must have sheared!

Andy

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Hi Andy,

 the4n you should have side lights as described by Richard.

Peter's sidelight is for a 4A.

So remove the chromed ring from the rubber (thin blade slid in and lift out).

Remove the glass and this exposes the screws.

 

Roger

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We are all losing the plot! Its a TR4 and the sidelights on this model are a bayonet fiitting as shown on the earlier drawing so follow what Peter said originally - you probably need to press the glass in as you turn

cheers Rich

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It’s a Lucas  658 lamp, same as TR 4/4A/250/5. And Lotus Elan. 
 

This info is based on original fitment.
 

Cheers

Peter W

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Andy,

The Lucas L658 Side Light

You may well have already re-wired your errant side light, however I thought it might to useful to mention some of the quirks’ and problems that can arise with these lights.

Problematically the whole lamp unit can easily be mounted upside down; I have seen many cars with this mistake.The metal lamp body has a projecting shade and this must always be at the top, this ensures that the plastic lens is mounted correctly with its clear magnified area at the bottom, original lenses are externally marked “Lucas” across this part of the lens.

The lens is removed by exerting pressure on the lens whilst turning the lens anti-clockwise – from 9 o’clock to approximately 7 o’clock.

Each lens has two cut outs in its rim and they should have parallel edges, if they are not parallel it means they have been broken during assembly or removal – these cut outs are the entry points for the steel locking tabs on the lamp body.One side of each cut out is thinner and slopes up to a step and thence a flat area – this is where the steel tab is retained.Lenses with broken cut-outs can be used providing that the all important “step” is still intact.

This then moves into another possible problem, each lamp must be assembled with the two gaskets, the first to go on is made from a sponge rubber which compresses to allow the lens to be removed.

Next is the all important thin clear plastic gasket, this allows the lens to slide round as it is pushed inwards and rotated – without this part, over time, the sponge rubber gasket often gets brittle and the lens either sticks or digs into the sponge and when changing a bulb the lens can be hard to remove, possibly breaking the edges of the cut outs.

Finally, if the chrome rim becomes detached from the lens, the chrome rim should be re-fitted with the two small creases to its inner diameter lining up with the two clear wings on the lens which sit at 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock.

This is how the original lamps were manufactured and it is by gripping these two clear wings that the lens and rim are removed from the car.

Apologies for the length and waffle of this piece...!!!!!!!!!!

Regards, Richard

P.S

By the way, for any technical research into any matter on a TR your first port of call has to be the “Moss Sales Catalogue” this has it all, illustrations and text – it is the Bible.......!!!!

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+1 on getting a printed copy of the Moss TR2-4A spares catalogue.

We spent hours getting those bits of info in there long before the internet existed.

Cheers

Peter W

PS order your free copy here.  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/parts-accessories-catalogues/tr2-4a-parts-catalogue-tr2cat.html

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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I've finally removed the side lamp from the car as there is no pressing rush to get the job done. I am curious to know what type of connector the wire should have. There is a spring with a rubber washer on it allowing the bayonet bulb to be pushed in and twisted, holding it in position. I'm assuming it is a bullet type fitting but it looks as if it is a 'round peg in a square hole' or is that just the end that is squared?. Do I need to order a particular size of connector (ref)?

I've attached a pic showing the back of the lamp holder.

Also should the inside of the lampholder be painted silver as mine is pretty much black as you can see? I had also intended fitting led bulbs (if I can get hold of any)

Thanks in anticipation

Stay safe

Andy

IMG_4248.jpeg

IMG_4247.jpeg

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Andy the centre section is the supply, you should have a Bakelite type base with a centre contact, with the cable running through your square hole.

Earth is as it should be, Don,t paint inside that is the earth contact.

can help with bits when things free up.

John.

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Thanks John

As the car hasn't been anywhere I'll have a scout round to see if it has dropped off. I only appear to have the spring with the rubber washer(s). Is it like a tiny bakelight or tufnal washer with a steel centre that the cable is soldered to. There was nothing loose under the bulb

Andy

PS The earth wasn't attached anywhere!

 

Edited by Ocheye
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On 3/22/2020 at 11:22 AM, RAHTR4 said:

Andy,

The Lucas L658 Side Light

 

Problematically the whole lamp unit can easily be mounted upside down; I have seen many cars with this mistake.The metal lamp body has a projecting shade and this must always be at the top, this ensures that the plastic lens is mounted correctly with its clear magnified area at the bottom, original lenses are externally marked “Lucas” across this part of the lens.

 

Regards, Richard

I notice that my lamp body doesn't have a shade as per the TR4 exploded diagram. I haven't checked the nearside one to see if it is the same. The body is stamped L658 but I can't see where it may have snapped off. The lens does have the magnified section.

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On further investigation I have removed the internal spring and washer (see pic). It doesn't appear to be bakelite or tufnal. Feels like hard rubber. I suspect that the live wire was just a push fit (bodge) through the hole and has pulled out when I was tidying up the loom and tensioned it a little so just as well I spotted it. Trouble is it is difficult to obtain silly little bits under the current circumstances.

I have also seen this advert for a complete new one on eBay but as it is a repro will it have the little projecting shade attached to the body? No internal photos to show.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Side-light-lamp-replaces-Lucas-L658-for-Lotus-Triumph-TR4-TR4A-TR5/252296144322?hash=item3abe05a5c2:g:yEQAAOSw55FcQGBA

Keep safe

Andy

790511139_Ufyd8TOOQwCOANdvJL58Q_thumb_b0fe.thumb.jpg.f949c063469c8ec733426ac465559633.jpg

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Andy - If you look carefully at the photo on ebay, I think you can see the shade under the lens or better still contact them direct and ask:

image.png.f43efba834c81532358514241dfdf12d.png

Telephone: 01926 640055

E-mail: sales@autoelectricalspares.co.uk

Cheers  Rich 

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1 hour ago, rcreweread said:

Andy - If you look carefully at the photo on ebay, I think you can see the shade under the lens or better still contact them direct and ask:

image.png.f43efba834c81532358514241dfdf12d.png

Telephone: 01926 640055

E-mail: sales@autoelectricalspares.co.uk

Cheers  Rich 

I thought I could see something but wasn't sure.

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51 minutes ago, RAHTR4 said:

Andy,

Photos of an original L658.

Regards, Richard

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

What a brilliant set of pics. Thank you. I can now see that mine has sustained damage/loss over the years. I'll check the other one and then make a decision. Andy

 

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Andy,

If your feed wire connector has disappeared, the same type of wire connector is used in any of the dash panel bulb holders, you might have a spare of these.

Also your light has been installed using large round head self-tappers and I think they are the reason the “shade” has been removed, basically to provide room.

Those round heads will make the lens difficult to install and remove, plus they will eventually destroy the sponge seal.

Originally these bulb holders were fitted using small countersunk self-tappers into spire nuts and because of the use of large round head self-tappers I am guessing that you will find the spire nuts are also missing...!!!

Regards, Richard

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Thanks Richard. Yes, one of the spire nuts is missing though I probably have spares. I have checked the nearside lamp and it is pretty much the same story, certainly missing the hood

Andy

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