john.r.davies Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Quote Ross et al (Eds), "Dietary Reference Intakes for Calcium and Vitamin D", 2011, National Academies Press, Washington, " Increasing intake of vitamin D results in higher blood levels of 25OHD, although perhaps not in a linear manner." (my underline) Peter will no doubt explain the metabolism and excretion of VitD, but it is a complex system, that normally responds to plasma calcium levels. Such metabolic systems typically increase activity in response to an increased substrate in an negative exponential manner, that increase diminishing as enzymes are overloaded. It may not be wise to push your liver too far! A 5K dose is a significant fraction of the toxic dose (60K) (Mayo clinic). Edited January 31, 2021 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Mark, Welcome to the worried well club! At least we are both in the ok band. So many things, such as a recent infection, that can drop our levels, but good to consider what the levels might have been without supplementation and how much more prepared our immune systems are for whatever lies ahead for us all. I just hope you wife is "OK" too. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 After a year on 4000IU pd i got to 140 nmol/L. I take 2 2000IU gelcaps with the main meal as fat helps gut uptake. As John says the dose-response is non-linear , and we vary ,for reasons I have not explored in depth. After going to a higher does it can take three moonths for the serum25(OH)D to re-stabilise. Body mass index has an efffect : obesity results in lower 25(OH) for a given dosage. Older age also reduces response. Not sure about calcium in diet. I take magnesium as a supplement and in a multivit-mineral pill. There is some evidence for Mg deficieny in soft tapwater population. Overall I think it a good idea to get 25(OH)D measured. Best to do that now so incidemtal summer UVB does not iinfluence the desiired winter supplementation. That said, some caucasiana, ca one in three, are extra-responsive to 25(OH)D, but that has not been tied into dose-response to supplements. Dont forget the "D3 hammer" takken at the first sign of a cold or cough. 50,000 IU one-off. Cut open capsules and soak the oil into toast, then butter to deliver the fat. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 There are genetic variants iin D-binding protioen that lead to lower serum 25(OH)D for a given supplementation regime:https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/47173427/j.clinbiochem.2009.03.00820160711-9405-9jpy27.pdf?1468291065=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DCommon_genetic_variants_of_the_vitamin_D.pdf&Expires=1612120098&Signature=KoPtXP3d~bfjvIFfhLFm76bQvOfkvrmr1N5rHx3LGFxRU8oI1d5BIrEwyVYFhyAO45z60ef~0YVayNZTWXKtvHxFdT8cpON69yWPKR7SvU8ceC1N-RnJqkbZLREcpBCK7de9vjm5YLmEVwywagCtncHzU~x6kI59z-4mJdJ2FW3xEiQ1STGEVxGvvIZqG1b2dxPqnxcJ2Zz30lqytjOJaTgcg9hxqkv7sJORg1NOVWZZAFagQtEzev6uYGWVXsSoqbXW1zyGSDu4kjFTefMiZb8ipmaiPHFz~ngAyDcBLwk0dufG0mTfltd0HuYbeZtGxn4arafl~-svJLvDTRZ0ew__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 From France, D3 for mnimising vaccine adverse responses: https://frenchdailynews.com/society/2673-vaccination-preventing-rare-effects-with-vitamin-d Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Earlier, I posted a link to the Royal Society symposium where several global experts spoke about Covid and the vaccine. They only had an hour and the speakers could answer a few questions from their viewers, so one of them, Prof.Charles Bangham, who holds the Chair on Immunology at Imperial, has written an article to address many of the others that people have. See: https://royalsociety.org/blog/2021/01/why-we-know-vaccines-work/?fbclid=IwAR09ZLn7ddp7MCJY4JjDq95pQAPanGcDQVS1oltJAsvQxTGQj5ZI-ymJLcg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Well my wife who is high risk got the text this morning and jab on Thursday thanks to those that made this happen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, ntc said: Well my wife who is high risk got the text this morning and jab on Thursday thanks to those that made this happen Stay safe Neil. Don't go out if you have no important need. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, RogerH said: Stay safe Neil. Don't go out if you have no important need. Roger Roger Had to do that for 9 months and I don’t mind alas I have seen what can happen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Here's an interesting idea! I've tried to offer evidence that runs counter to the avalanche of support for VitD, in particular on light levels. BUt the contrast between nations in the imapct of Covid may be due to their attitudes to social convention. A paper in Lancet Planetary Health by Gelgand, Jackson, Pan et al (The relationship between cultural tightness–looseness and COVID-19 cases and deaths: a global analysis, https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanplh/PIIS2542-5196(20)30301-6.pdf) suggest this with a strong correlation. They categorised according to previous research rather than stereotyping, nations into those with a strictly abide by social norms and called them "tight", while those where people were more relaxed as "Loose". They then compared this score with their death rates associated with Covid The result is this strong correlation which has a highly significant 'p' value of 0.0001 While there is a tendency for nations who have kept the death rate right down to be near the equator, others, such as Trinidad and Tobagoand Greece are in the death zone. The conclusion was that "Nations with high levels of cultural tightness were better able to limit cases and deaths than nations that were looser." As we know with sadness, the UK is among the world leaders in deaths per million, with Italy, Spain, the USA, most of South America and Sweden, while China, Vietnam, Thailand and Sri Lanka almost drop off the graph. John Edited February 2, 2021 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 John, many of the lowC19 nations have age structure that is very young compared with the highC19 nations. Japan would eb the exception, but they do eat a lot of fish ! Along with age the lowC19 nations are very poor, and the poor cannot avoid the plentiful sun, thay must work to eat. Singapore is an exception, but it is undoubtedly not "loose", akin to a police state. My interpretation is that D3 explains much of that plot. Question is: did the authors exclude D3 or are they D3-blind ? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Forey Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 If a young engineer presented that chart with such a straight line and claimed a correlation, the old lags would describe it as a "stars at night" chart and send him on his way. Computer regression analysis has a lot to answer for. Does it look right? Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Well ''cultural tightness" is hardly a well-defined or evaluated parameter so there must be a lot of doubt and variability in that measure, which has to have been decided somewhat arbitrarily John. There are so many other factors which have just been ignored that this can really only rate as junk science. After all and as we all know 'correlation does not imply causation' and in this case even the correlation must be deemed doubtful. Edited February 2, 2021 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 RobH, if you had read the paper, you would have found that the loose/tight quotient is established by previously published research, as I said above carried out by questionnaires and not by national stereotyping. Mick, the regression had an R of -0.54, which must range between 0 (no correlation) and 1 (perfect, all obsevations on the line). And with a P of 0.0001, it was a long way more significant than the threshold on 0.05 Peter, Brazil is another country that is young and poor, and in Manaus on the Amazon they probably eat a lot of fish, but look where it is on that chart! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 https://vitamindwiki.com/Vitamin-D+and+COVID-19%3A+time+for+the+profession+to+take+a+stand+–+Jan+20%2C+2021 Australia on the ball. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 See Davis Davis, used PMQ's today to continue to bang the Vit. D drum. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, John Morrison said: See Davis Davis, used PMQ's today to continue to bang the Vit. D drum. John. Many thanks John, Beeb edited it out, but it is on DD website,. I have alerted the D3CG https://www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-mp-questions-the-prime-minister-about-the-latest-vitamin-d-research-from-andalucia/ I gather PMQs is not a free for all, his question will have been pre-selected. Maybe hopeful.... Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 Tonight 10:45 ITV Peston. David Davis appearing, hoping to raise D3 re BAMEs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 Sue and myself had our C19 jabs today. Whilst being logged in and double checked and then jabbed I managed to chat to a couple of the workers there and they agreed with me that come late April we will all be getting better - not necessarily to the jab but it will be sunnier. So the medics DO agree with the D3 idea. I appreciate that these folk were not full blown doctors but they know what the are doing. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1000 vaccinated today in Lancaster! First clinic this week - no vaccine available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 Prediction of new variants with much higher affinity of spike for receptor, waiting to evolve https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.06.425392v3.full Only a matter of time? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spit_2.5PI Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Whilst being logged in and double checked and then jabbed I managed to chat to a couple of the workers there and they agreed with me that come late April we will all be getting better - not necessarily to the jab but it will be sunnier. Roger, that could also be because we're turning the heating down (less arid indoors), opening the windows occasionally, and spending more time outside. This is one of vitamin D's problems - these other seasonal factors have health benefits too. Cheers, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: 1000 vaccinated today in Lancaster! First clinic this week - no vaccine available. I asked at Stoneleigh how busy they'd been - at about 3 o'clock they'd vaccinated about 800 people. They'd also had 10 no-shows. The no-shows might be down to poor communication between the GP-led vaccination site and the Warwickshire site at Stoneleigh. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Spit_2.5PI said: Roger, that could also be because we're turning the heating down (less arid indoors), opening the windows occasionally, and spending more time outside. This is one of vitamin D's problems - these other seasonal factors have health benefits too. Cheers, Richard I saw data that indicate only 1 to2 extra hours are spent outside in summer, per day. Not enough out of the 24 to explain the plumetting infection rate. SInce infections are rare outside anyway - hence we are allowed out in lockdon to excercise- uv light killing the bugs is unlikely to contrbute much to the fall. Indoor temperatures dont vary that much either. UV light does not pass glass. To me the numbers dont add up to explain the summer plummet. We do knwo serum 25(OH)D rises in UK population from 40-50 end-winter to ca 70 nmol/L in summer, and that may tip the balance against infections. However,impossible to isolate causes and effects, so the public health wallahs can continue to ignore D3....but not for long. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 GP surgery phoned with our jab appt. If I dont post after next Tuesday........................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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