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42 minutes ago, Spit_2.5PI said:

Indeed. You can also go around other regions of Spain. Granada, Cadiz, Seville, you name it. When you've un-ticked the infections and the scale readjusts, they all show the same drop in deaths in November/December. The drop in deaths in Andalucia may be co-incident with supplementation in nursing homes, but it's also when their nationwide lockdown happened. So, unless the whole nation was getting vitamin D, I'm afraid my conclusion is that it was lockdown that caused the drop shown on the graph.

Peter, you know I'm an advocate of vitamin D, but in this case, I don't think that's where the evidence points. If I've missed something, I'd be very happy for you or anyone to point it out.

Cheers, Richard

Richard, We suspect that care home doctors are using calcifediol nation-wide across Spain, but it is not reported. The earlier Cordoba hospital study will have alerted them and calcifidiol is I gather made in Spain. Deaths per day in Andalucia, pop 8 million, is 5 at present. Wales, pop 3 million has 53 today. So wales per million is around 25 fold worse and locked down at about the same time.  Looks to be a real effect of D3.  Peter

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OK Peter, well IF that's the case, then we could well be seeing something. But we only have anecdotal evidence about the use of vitamin D elsewhere in Spain. But we do KNOW that they have a nationwide lockdown which started in November.

Cheers, Richard

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3 minutes ago, Spit_2.5PI said:

they have a nationwide lockdown which started in November.

 

I understand it is rigidly enforced too, unlike Wales where the covidiots are out in force and the police seem unable to cope.

Pete

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Just now, stillp said:

I understand it is rigidly enforced too, unlike Wales where the covidiots are out in force and the police seem unable to cope.

Pete

But dodging lockdown hardly applies to care home residents, more liek locked up. So to explain the 25 fold higher death rate in Wales the carers would need to be dedicated covidiots. - highly doubtful. 

The Cordoba hospital study showed a 25 fold lower need for ICU in pts treated with calcifidiol upon admission, D3 is not in use in Wales hospitals. Curious that the death ratios are similar.

Peter

Peter

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Excellent, well-reasoned presentation by David Davis, who clearly understands the arguments and wants the Government to increase the life chances for the UK population.

One can only hope that the other evidence which the Minister wants to see will become available very soon.  However, at least a year will have been lost and one wonders how many lives could have been saved and by how much the burden on the NHS, care homes and others could have been reduced to more manageable levels.

In the meanwhile, thanks to Peter's advice, my wife and I have each been swallowing 2000 units per day of Vitamin D since the lockdown started last March,  and we shall continue to do so for the rest of our lives.  600 capsules cost less than £10, so it really is a no-brainer as far as we are concerned.

Ian Cornish

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2 hours ago, ianc said:

Excellent, well-reasoned presentation by David Davis, who clearly understands the arguments and wants the Government to increase the life chances for the UK population.

One can only hope that the other evidence which the Minister wants to see will become available very soon.  However, at least a year will have been lost and one wonders how many lives could have been saved and by how much the burden on the NHS, care homes and others could have been reduced to more manageable levels.

In the meanwhile, thanks to Peter's advice, my wife and I have each been swallowing 2000 units per day of Vitamin D since the lockdown started last March,  and we shall continue to do so for the rest of our lives.  600 capsules cost less than £10, so it really is a no-brainer as far as we are concerned.

Ian Cornish

Ian,

Infuriatingly I understand there is no automatic follow-up to the debate. It falls into  the political long grass, and most MPs  are nowhere near as well informed as Davis. Unless the broadsheets run with it soon, or Rupa Huq MP leads a charge on Jo Churchill from the Opposition  benches, I shall be giving up. There is a limit to the crass government stupidity I can endure. All my family, friends, aquaintances know about D3, and D3 for C-19. I no longer fear the virus or any of its variants, nor losing anyone I know who has acted upon the information ( Not advice) I have distributed. And that includes fellow TRers who have endured this 10 month long thread.

Last week Amazon UK sold 230,000 bottles of D3. Hopefully that's 230,000 families saved from the worst the virus can do.

Peter

 

 

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9 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Peter,

do not give up.

 

Roger

Roger,   I dont  see anyway of getting around the impasse imposed by NICE, within legal bounds. I also have a load of reading to do to sort out the Parkinson's. After reading a book that exposed all the overlooked science underpinning PD and Alz D ( Brain Fables, Espay) I need to revise my DIY cocktail. That means going back to basics and focusing in on brain inflammation. Tonight I'm starting on this review-hypothesis:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7412598/

I wont disengage from the D3 Campaign Group and will post on here key pertinent bits.

Peter

 

 

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30 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Would it not be possible to get your campaign group to put big adverts in national papers. ?

or chivvy the press directly

Roger

 

Adverts need £serious funding. And editors never reply: we suspect the media have been warned not to publish "alternative " approaches to C-19. But I bet the editors I wrote to went out and bought D3 for themselves.

Peter

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I sent a simple thank you email to Dave Davis for raising the matter  and keeping it in the public domain. I had a nice response, no doubt from a member of his team, but I thought it important for him to know his efforts are appreciated.

Alan

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20 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

Pity about the "10 mg ".     400,000 IU per day is toxicity territory, but reversibly so.

Peter

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Can you get Private Eye interested? Instances where politicians and public servants underperform are their meat and drink. Their medical correspondent M.D. (aka Dr Phil Hammond) believes in Vitamin D and has a very good column.

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53 minutes ago, acaie said:

Can you get Private Eye interested? Instances where politicians and public servants underperform are their meat and drink. Their medical correspondent M.D. (aka Dr Phil Hammond) believes in Vitamin D and has a very good column.

Acaie,

Great idea, am fwding it to the group.

Peter

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Please everybody:

The Spanish study only shows association, not causation. There are very real differences and very real reasons why people should not oversell this yet (think bleach and hydroxychloroquine).  It may well be real but it in no way meets sufficient scientific rigour to be considered an appropriate treatment modality.  Please trust me that if something so simple, cheap and safe was the solution it would be rolled out as soon as possible.  Note that dexamethasone (old and cheap) was the 1st mass adopted treatment over the expensive or Trumpistan supported solutions out there.

Unlike those 2 false examples, Vit D supplementation should be vaguely benign in terms of side effects/risk and in many countries in winter has studies around that indicate multiple benefits.  So far they are not sufficiently large to ensure it's in the water supply.  This is not a "big pharma" conspiracy but more just due to the politics and economy of how science is funded.  Good and cheap struggles to attract finance.

Do I think it's a panacea to protect vs COVID: not remotely.  May it be useful and has minimal harm: absolutely yes.  Should you mortgage your home (or worse your TR) to support it: absolutely not.

By far: you safest and best protection is vaccination. Prior to that: Social distancing, masks, hand washing etc.  Stay safe and adopt a plague like mentality if you are in the UK right now.

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Thank you, Matt. for a blast of common sense.

As I think I've said, dexamethazone is only useful to treat lung involvement so severe as to potentially need ICU and ventilation.  But then it is a life saver.

John   

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If it is an unknown quantity how can it be common sense to deny something and not common sense to accept something.

 

There is no common sense in your statement - just simple ignorance.

 

Roger

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5 hours ago, matttnz said:

Please everybody:

The Spanish study only shows association, not causation. There are very real differences and very real reasons why people should not oversell this yet (think bleach and hydroxychloroquine).  It may well be real but it in no way meets sufficient scientific rigour to be considered an appropriate treatment modality.  Please trust me that if something so simple, cheap and safe was the solution it would be rolled out as soon as possible.  Note that dexamethasone (old and cheap) was the 1st mass adopted treatment over the expensive or Trumpistan supported solutions out there.

Unlike those 2 false examples, Vit D supplementation should be vaguely benign in terms of side effects/risk and in many countries in winter has studies around that indicate multiple benefits.  So far they are not sufficiently large to ensure it's in the water supply.  This is not a "big pharma" conspiracy but more just due to the politics and economy of how science is funded.  Good and cheap struggles to attract finance.

Do I think it's a panacea to protect vs COVID: not remotely.  May it be useful and has minimal harm: absolutely yes.  Should you mortgage your home (or worse your TR) to support it: absolutely not.

By far: you safest and best protection is vaccination. Prior to that: Social distancing, masks, hand washing etc.  Stay safe and adopt a plague like mentality if you are in the UK right now.

Matt, You  are not in  the least familiar with the depth of  evidence of the role of D3-deficiency in causlinf the pandemic nor in its role in  reducing  severity and deaths from C-19. Like John and almost all clinicians D3 has been below your radar. Relying upon what you learned as an undergraduate and what NICE or its NZ equivalnet dictate is indadequate and  dangerous. Read the articles listed in the small print and become better informed by thos who  are truly expert in D3: https://vitamindforall.org/letter.html

Your belief in the vaccine being best  pretection is misplaced. The Brazil and South African variants have evolved ot avoid antibodies induced by the original strain. That does not bode well for the efficacy fo  the vacciens designed aginst the original strain. By contrast  the anti-microbail peptides promoted by D3 are not only pan-specific but also have activity to lydse the virus, which antibodies lack.

D3 deficiency is the number one failure  of the medical profession. Very few have followed the science over the past two decades, and have preferred to follow , blindly, advisory bodies such as NICE with a deeply flawed blinkered adherence to RCTs. UK doctors are not compelled to follw NICE recommendations, yet they do.  Dr Grimes' blog shows the level of knowledge and ability to follow the science of D3 that every physician world  wide should aspire to : http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/

"Please  trust me that if........"  No, I dont. Ingorance of D3 is profound and widespread in the medical profession globally, and ignorance of the physiological serum 25(OH)D and their failure to correct it is a driver of the pandemic, and a host of serious diseases ( see vitamindwiki).  Doctors worlwide need  to  ask, for every  patient they see, "what is the involvement of D3 in their condition?" But they do not and fail to correct the deficiency of this crucial hormone. Result a pandemic of D3 deficiency that has resulted in a virus pandemic. The answer is sunlight and/or supplements: cheap, simple,safe and effective against all strains of envloped virus. Trust me, I know the science.

As a second line of defence the vaccine might work as designed, though that has yet to be shown for new variants, and weare told it is safe. But when I see delighted just-vaccinated grannies beamig with delight and telling the  camera  they can now see their grandchildren, I see tragedies ahead. The elderly are notoriously D3 deficient and the  vaccine will not restore those cathelicidins, defensins, lysozyme and dozens of other antimcicobial defenses that are the first line of defence and actually explode the virus.  Sad, and the blame lies firmly with the medical prefessions D3-ignorance. The science is abundant.

Peter

 

 

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https://www.gponline.com/

The Open Letter gets a link, now with 200+ signatories.

====

A company in Oz has set about making calcifidiol: https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2021/01/14/DSM-responds-to-immunity-demands-with-fast-acting-vitamin-

D3 per se works slower to raise serum 25(OH)D hence use of calcifidiol ( 25(OH)D) in emergency.

Peter

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