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3 hours ago, Bleednipple said:

...I'm not completely cynical about politicians (right or left), we need them, but I just want the bastards to always be kept right where I can see them!  As with Vitamin D maybe, in public life "sunlight is the best disinfectant" ;)

Checks and balances in a democracy. I agree. Usefulness of upper chamber, as someone has already pointed out, and "the media", not an abstract principle or a homogenous set of behaviours and outlooks, but a diverse, often conflicting mixture, as it should be. My students often whinge about being "bombarded by the media", as if it were all one thing. It's not.

But it does require us to look around, beyond the Beeb, certainly.

For example, in Italy, where I'm from, Sky News is, at times, excellent, and points out things state media would prefer to be ignored.

Another example, though I would seldom read The Torygraph, my wife has just subscribed and I agree with her, however reluctantly. It is independent. It provides conflicting interpretations of the same story. That's better, in my opinion, than the moaning minnies of The Guardian, just right for the righteous and sententious, but often bent on its own crusades.

As for myself, I must admit that, most of the time, I just can't be bothered.

That said, I do find it stimulating to follow this debate. Makes me reflect. Not a bad thing, these days.

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HELP THE NHS ~ I've let my adjoining empty house (fully furnished) to four NHS nurses free of charge during this National Emergency. We have a very large General Hospital at the top of the r

Very very Harsh Geko. I see a man, in an unenviable position, doing his utmost to balance the impossible tasks of trying to control the spread of a new novel virus - for which there is no treatme

By the book...

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18 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

CFF43981-19AB-463D-B849-518DC7D7C219.jpeg

I also have a son with autism. Lots of people have dependants who have special needs, often severe ones. But Independent journalist Jim Moore put it better than I can, in response to Michael Gove:

"The thing is Mike, I’m disabled and type 1 diabetic. My key worker wife was on the verge of hospitalisation with Covid while I was seriously ill with it. My son (12) is autistic. My daughter is 9. We managed the situation without our relatives or travelling to Durham.”

Sorry for my tone, but I'm starting to get quite angry with this myself, which is unlike me. I'd best shut up now.

Nigel

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4 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

My cynical take on the media attention given to DC is that they are bored with reporting... Therefore they were delighted... I was so bored with the media... Did they...

I wouldn't consider it "cynical", but partial, yes. As if there is a single "they", as in Edward Lear's limericks, where "they" become a single character. 

Mainstream media, true, often the lowest common denominator, does not equate, in my view, with the "they" of "the media.

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Someone else posted here,I saw it but they deleted their words and now all evidence of the post has gone completely. Not a priveledge we all have here.

i have also had a photograph disliked, ididnt even comment on it? There are some very biased and devious people here. As I have said before “ watch your back”.

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6 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

have also had a photograph disliked, ididnt even comment on it? There are some very biased and devious people here.

My upvote cancelled the downvote Sue.:rolleyes:

Edited by RobH
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On 3/14/2020 at 9:19 PM, Peter Cobbold said:

f they are right, and 200 academics agreeing is rather spectacular, Italy here we come. Peter

525, what with lecturers, PhDs and a few distinguished people, of which, I'm glad to note, 125+ are Italian. Well, they would know, as I do, from first-hand accounts from families, friends, and colleagues living in Italy.

I can think of one account from Piero Gentile, who was in my class at 14.

Piero lives in Bergamo and volunteers every day to distribute food door-to-door. He described the sorry sight of tailbacks of army lorries laden with coffins, heading for anonymous mass graves, to the sound of wailing ambulances all day and every day.

So yes, more likely than not, they have heard and known terrible things.

It is allarming. At first, I tried to ignore it. Now you put on your (washable) mask, spray surfaces, gel on your hands as frequently as you must.

Edited by DavidBee
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35 minutes ago, RobH said:

My upvote cancelled the downvote Sue.:rolleyes:

I do that and will right this minute. Three cheers for free, civilized, speech. :rolleyes:

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Having spent some time travelling throughout the Middle East in some hotels without British tv or papers I grew to like and respect Al Jazeera press and tv.  A lot more balanced with a wider perspective than the US equivalents which were available. It does you good to read about your own country from a different perspective. Guess what, the DC story does not make it onto their home page today as there are more important issues out there. https://www.aljazeera.com/

Mick

Edited by Mick Forey
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11 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

I grew to like and respect Al Jazeera press and tv.  A lot more balanced with a wider perspective than the US equivalents which were available. It does you good to read about your own country from a different perspective.

Agreed. 

I often take a look at the news, as reported by Al Jazeera, whose editorial offices the US military bombed in Iraq, with subsequent loss of innocent lives, if I'm not mistaken.

I remember once going to Australia and getting a very different picture of Europe, compared to what I heard and read in the UK. 

Incidentally, on my return, I'd parked my 2, OGB 800, at Heathrow, and jetlag was such I kept dropping off on my way back to Oxford, so stopped off time and time again. It took hours and hours for a relatively short journey.

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Thanks David and Robb.:wub:

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I surmise everybody on here reads Al Jazeera and/or The Guardian but love to spit blood at it in public. Just like eating vegetables - doesn't always taste good but sensible people know there's a whole lot of goodness for the brain in it...

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15 minutes ago, Geko said:

I surmise everybody on here reads Al Jazeera and/or The Guardian...

True, but not really comparable. The Guardian, when push came to shove, told its readers to vote Tory. So, more of the same diet, but with an emphasis on single issues, to the detriment of matters of state. You are not going to find a platform for alternatives to moneterism in The Guardian, that's for sure. They like to have their cake and eat it.

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I saw a clip where the media were pushing a shoving each other with DC asking them to step back and stay 2m apart. Clearly social distancing rules don't apply to the media.

The other hypocritical issue I have with the media is when Laura Kuenessberg and friends are standing outside No.10 or the Palace of Westminster talking to the camera, not interviewing anybody. Not only a pointless journey but I bet they also have a cameraman, soundman, director and possibly a make-up/hair person. I bet they travel together. Whilst standing there in close proximity they are criticising others for breaking lockdown rules. They are not key workers and the piece to camera can be done from home using a static camera.

My lovely wife tells me off for shouting at the tv news, mainly aimed at the behaviour of the media and their puerile, negative questions, I must learn to chill.

Mick 

Edited by Mick Forey
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and no one has mentioned the constant presence of protesters with objectionable placards outside DC's London home, not to mention the media, no wonder he thought he (& family) was better off outside the "circus" it has become.
Whether he broke and laws or not, it didn't look well managed or handled.
Ian

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1 hour ago, Mick Forey said:

I saw a clip where the media were pushing a shoving each other with DC asking them to step back and stay 2m apart. Clearly social distancing rules don't apply to the media.

The other hypocritical issue I have with the media is when Laura Kuenessberg and friends are standing outside No.10 or the Palace of Westminster talking to the camera, not interviewing anybody. Not only a pointless journey but I bet they also have a cameraman, soundman, director and possibly a make-up/hair person. I bet they travel together. Whilst standing there in close proximity they are criticising others for breaking lockdown rules. They are not key workers and the piece to camera can be done from home using a static camera.

My lovely wife tells me off for shouting at the tv news, mainly aimed at the behaviour of the media and their puerile, negative questions, I must learn to chill.

Mick 

Mick

You have just surprised me, shouting at the TV is definitely not something I would normally associate you with, having spent time with you at meeting, where others may have got heated you appeared calm. I too feel the behaviour of the pack of journalists is more likely to endanger lives with their close proximity to each other let alone those they feel they have the right to descend upon. Dominic Cummings got in his car quietly one evening and drove with his family to a place where he felt was safest. The bias reporting on the television and the manner in which they conduct themselves I find rude at best to outright offensive.

The press make a big play on DC hasn’t abided by the rules/guidelines, well it’s clear from the photo above they are breaking them every day and forcing other to do the same, the hypocrisy is glaring and like Mick frustrated, I have so far refrained from shouting at the TV but on more than one occasion taken large breaths to calm  myself. When I think of what we were in the 60 and 70s pioneers with a media so positive that stood for fairness with a broadcasting net work to be proud the envy of many. To have descended to this,  trial by media, rude, offensive, demanding and irresponsible, I am not sure if just shouting is the answer.

:( 
 

 

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Derek, it's true, the Beeb did, at different junctures, transcend itself, in the precarious balance between public service and entertainment, and commercial interests.

But in 1965 there was one notable example in which it preferred to voluntarily self-censor than fight the battle for freedom of speech.

Namely, when Peter Watson's The War Game (1965), commissioned by the BBC, was withdrawn before its screening. It was an accurate rendition of the real impact of atomic warfare, based on sound scientific research. An amazing film to watch, where reality in the form of ordinary people speaking their minds in vox pop interviews, shines through.

Politics outweighed its remit to inform. What would really hapoen if? How would societal infrastructure cope, if...? These were the questions addressed.

Hardly anyone has ever heard of it. They did such a good job. Buried, but not forgotten. Realist, not sensationalist.

When was this? At the time the BBC was apparently doing its job. I think there's a distinction worth drawing between history and historical mythmaking.

And something similar happened two years later in Ireland with Peter Lennon's Rocky Road to Dublin (1967). Also censored, for presenting a truthful picture of the country, but done more informally. Never screened until 2003, a little before Lennon's demise. Even today, hardly anyone has ever watched it or heard of it.

Edited by DavidBee
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Neil not sure moron is appropriate, I am confident the journalists are not of low intelligence, although you may believe they come over like that.

Davebee I do not recall the TV production you refer to, although that’s not surprising if it was pulled. To be clear I have no problem with investigative journalism, in the past or now, I have a problem with the way they it’s being conducted and if the end result makes it worse they to have a duty of care. As stated previously when you interview someone, then misrepresent what’s said, and when questioned, reply well you got publicity. That doesn’t bare well for the future of journalism and only misleads those hearings or reading it. The means does not justify ends.

However I am possibly becoming as irritating as the journalists, repeating the same thing, even if  it’s not word for word, and may have become boring so I’ll sign off now, well from here anyway.

Edited by Derek Hurford
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1 hour ago, Derek Hurford said:


 

Mick

You have just surprised me, shouting at the TV is definitely not something I would normally associate you with, having spent time with you at meeting, where others may have got heated you appeared calm. I too feel the behaviour of the pack of journalists is more likely to endanger lives with their close proximity to each other let alone those they feel they have the right to descend upon. Dominic Cummings got in his car quietly one evening and drove with his family to a place where he felt was safest. The bias reporting on the television and the manner in which they conduct themselves I find rude at best to outright offensive.

The press make a big play on DC hasn’t abided by the rules/guidelines, well it’s clear from the photo above they are breaking them every day and forcing other to do the same, the hypocrisy is glaring and like Mick frustrated, I have so far refrained from shouting at the TV but on more than one occasion taken large breaths to calm  myself. When I think of what we were in the 60 and 70s pioneers with a media so positive that stood for fairness with a broadcasting net work to be proud the envy of many. To have descended to this,  trial by media, rude, offensive, demanding and irresponsible, I am not sure if just shouting is the answer.

:( 
 

 

Ain't that the truth,

fraid the BBC for one has lost me forever, watched LK, last night quote unamed source after source, thought, 'She's quite possibly making this up'.

John.

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51 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

Ain't that the truth,

fraid the BBC for one has lost me forever, watched LK, last night quote unamed source after source, thought, 'She's quite possibly making this up'.

John.

John,

In journalism, sources are protected.  it's not just their ethics (yes, they do have ethics!) it's the LAW.   Section 10 of the Contempt of Court Act provides that, "No court may require a person to disclose, nor is any person guilty of contempt of court for refusing to disclose, the source of information contained in a publication for which he is responsible, unless it be established to the satisfaction of the court that disclosure is necessary in the interests of justice or national security or for the prevention of disorder or crime."

The last is the difficult bit, and journalists have gone to jail, in this country for refusing to name a source.    You denigrated a journalist for upholding a basic tenet of their profession, as if you criticised a doctor for not telling all the juicy details of some unfortunate celebrity's illness.   I think you should at least apologise.

JOhn

Edited by john.r.davies
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As per John Morrison I sometimes hear the journalist say "..people are complaining/objecting/up-in-arms..."  (perm and one from three) and I wonder if it is their mum & dad , or colleagues and editor as they will have had no time to take soundings from the wider public. Not untrue, just a ruse to slant a story to meet an agenda.

I believe that BBC are still out there trying to manipulate public opinion to get Brexit reversed by;

Removing Mr Cummings

Discrediting Boris Johnson

Get a Brexit delay approved by EU

Brexit just dies, along with democracy.

Why no reporting of reducing Covid death numbers - or is that a good news story which does not play well with the objectives of the end game ? Why so little reporting of Stephen Kinnock visiting his father on his 78 th birthday 150 miles away?

Alan

 

 

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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

In journalism, sources are protected.  it's not just their ethics (yes, they do have ethics!) it's the LAW.   Section 10 of the Contempt of Court

Then having had a rebuttal, they should find an alternative source to substantiate their claim. 

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