Jump to content

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

The D3 for C-19 story has not gone away despite my radio silence. However a recent Nature paper shows convincingly how a synthetic, activated form of  D3 works on immune cells to reduce the pro-inflammatory cytokines that induce the often lethal cytokine storm that destroys lung tissues. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01080-3#Sec9 

- the details dont matter, its  terribly complicated, but it is good to know in-depth research is going on.

Another paper reviews D3 immune actions, the final section briefly covers C-19: https://asbmr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/jbm4.10405

Lots of research on D3 is underway globally. Eventually D3 will come good for  C-19 and a host of other diseases. I just sent off a blood-test to City Assays and have been told a 10day waiting list. Maybe D3 is proving popular.

Peter

:wub::wub::wub::wub: I’m still a believer and still a consumer of D3 and have not had to use my UV light for Sesonal Affective Disorder (SAD) for several Winters now. I have not had Cov19 either….!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

HELP THE NHS ~ I've let my adjoining empty house (fully furnished) to four NHS nurses free of charge during this National Emergency. We have a very large General Hospital at the top of the r

Very very Harsh Geko. I see a man, in an unenviable position, doing his utmost to balance the impossible tasks of trying to control the spread of a new novel virus - for which there is no treatme

By the book...

Posted Images

17 hours ago, SuzanneH said:

:wub::wub::wub::wub: I’m still a believer and still a consumer of D3 and have not had to use my UV light for Sesonal Affective Disorder (SAD) for several Winters now. I have not had Cov19 either….!!!

Sue, yes, it works to improve mood for me too: https://vitamindwiki.com/Depression

I havent had flu, or colds since starting supplementing 5 years ago, and a regular cough that I used  to get every Feb-March vanished also. Nor have I needed any  dental care or treatment. Yet they are going to add fluoride to tapwater.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spit_2.5PI said:

Thanks for keeping an eye on the D3 research Peter.

Cheers, Richard

Hi Richard, You're welcome, the papers are coming in fast. This one showed a synthetic activated D3 reduces the "cytokine storm". The details  dont concern us, but it is good to know that D3 research into immunity is accelerating. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01080-3

It cant be long before the medical authorities catch up somewhere and instigate nation-wide supplementation. Not UK, my guess Spain - see refs 52,53.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

There has been a number of instances recently where high profile sports people, most notably footballers,who are collapsing during training or matches.

It has to be recognised that these are extraordinarily fit individuals on controlled diets and in their 20’s or early 30’s. First it was Christian Ericsson, then unbelievabley Sergio Aquero, the Manchester City player. I believe both have been forced to take early retirement. A couple of days ago it was John Flack who collapsed on the pitch during a match under almost copycat circumstances, and today Wigan striker Charlie Wyke collapsed during training.

This was formerly very rare indeed. In the absence of underlying health issues which can more or less be accepted as non existent, what is going on here?

I read a report which suggested that the diagnosis of Myocarditis in young adults was only around 136 in the 5 million tested who had been vaccinated. So why all of a sudden are these top athletes collapsing? In Erricsens case his heart had stopped , he had effectively died, and a defib had to be used. In a 30 year old adult - really? Very alarming. So is this pointing to an effect of the Coronavirus vaccine, especially where high levels of exertion are apparent.

What will happen at future events like the London Marathon for instance if it transpires there is a link between prolonged exertion and the Covid vaccine? 

Kevin

Edited by boxofbits
Link to post
Share on other sites

From the Telegraph this morning...

'Totally irresponsible to make these unsubstantiated comments'

With former professionals, such as Ramon Vega and Matthew Le Tissier, also wading in to demand investigations into links, scientists responded by reminding them of their “public responsibility”. “Given the track record of certain footballers in the field of anti-vaccine beliefs, it is totally irresponsible to make these unsubstantiated comments, as opposed to getting them properly dealt with,” said Prof Keith Neal, who has 25 years of experience in the research of the epidemiology of infectious diseases at the University of Nottingham.

Prof Robert Dingwall, a public health specialist at Nottingham Trent’s School of Social Sciences, said: “There are many reasons why on-field collapses may occur, even in clusters. We should all be careful not to blame any particular cause until they have been properly investigated. It may be tempting to blame Covid vaccines but pundits do have a public responsibility not to fuel vaccine hesitancy without any real evidence that this is a common factor in widely separated events.”

All the evidence from the experts concludes that the risks associated with Covid-19 dramatically outweigh the chance of developing a blood clot after having received the vaccine. Misinformation was spread after Christian Eriksen suffered on-field cardiac arrest during Euro 2020 in the summer.

Inter Milan have since confirmed that he had not even had his first jab at the time of his collapse.

 

We need to be careful that confirmation bias does not intrude into our SPECULATION about random groupings of cases and possible causes.

Mick Richards

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, boxofbits said:

So is this pointing to an effect of the Coronavirus vaccine, especially where high levels of exertion are apparent.

What will happen at future events like the London Marathon for instance if it transpires there is a link between prolonged exertion and the Covid vaccine? 

...or could it be the result of previous exposure to the virus itself? A lot more scientific investigation required to understand this virus and all its variants/mutations. We seem to be destined to live with this and all the uncertainty for some time to come. In the meantime we're double (AZ) vaccinated since late May, on 1000iu VitD3 per day - soon to raise to 2000iu from beginning of December for a couple of months or so....

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was all ready to wade in and give Kevin (Box o'Bits) a lathering for spreading unfounded and irresponsible internet falsehoods, but I cannot do better than Mickey's report of far more qualified and informed doctors than I, getting in there.  

Cardiac collapse, in elite sports people is far from unknown.   The Fabrice Muamba case in 2012 was way before Covid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Muamba) and the Wiki also has a whole page discussion the scenario in lay-person's detail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_cardiac_death_of_athletes) where myocarditis is listed as a very small contributor.    This paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1769182/ ) from 2005 - 2005! - was stimulated by "the highly publicised sudden deaths of several elite professional athletes" and  cites hypertrophic cardiomyopathy as causing a third of such deaths.

Please Kevin, don't pander to the rumour-mongers!       Myocarditis after Covid vaccine is a rare complication, in young people.   It is unpleasant and frightening, but in the UK there have been NO fatalities from it.

JOhn

 

Edited by john.r.davies
Link to post
Share on other sites

Today we have much more to worry about than side-efffects of vaccines: are the existing vax effective against this new mutant in Africa ?

https://africacdc.org/news-item/africa-centres-for-disease-control-and-preventions-statement-regarding-the-new-sars-cov-2-virus-variant-b-1-1-529/

Does 1.1.529 with its 30 mutation in the spike escape antibodies induced by vaccines or indeed by infection with earlier variants ?

Innate immunity promoted by good D3 status inactivates all enveloped viruses via antimicrobial peptides such as  cathelicidin/LL37.  So those of us in the know  should be protected against severe infection. Even so, I am still shielding, no point in tweaking the devil's tail unnecessarily. 

Peter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with Mick and Rod,  the jury is out, and that a conclusion cannot be reached until further investigation is made, the problem being that both the virus and its vaccine are very new. Formerly, the coronavirus itself was the single most plausible cause of severe illness not previously witnessed, but now of course we have the added dimension of the vaccine to muddy the waters.
 

As Rod says, could it be exposure, perhaps which has gone undetected, to the virus itself, which when the body is under prolonged or extreme exertion an issue with the heart arises? Hence my reference to forthcoming public events like the London Marathon.

Kevin

Link to post
Share on other sites

Today we have much more to worry about than side-efffects of vaccines: are the existing vax effective against this new mutant in Africa ?

https://africacdc.org/news-item/africa-centres-for-disease-control-and-preventions-statement-regarding-the-new-sars-cov-2-virus-variant-b-1-1-529/

Does 1.1.529 with its 30 mutation in the spike escape antibodies induced by vaccines or indeed by infection with earlier variants ?

Innate immunity promoted by good D3 status inactivates all enveloped viruses via antimicrobial peptides such as  cathelicidin/LL37.  So those of us in the know  should be protected against severe infection. Even so, I am still shielding, no point in tweaking the devil's tail unnecessarily. 

Peter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

I was all ready to wade in and give Kevin (Box o'Bits) a lathering for spreading unfounded and irresponsible internet falsehoods, but I cannot do better than Mickey's report of far more qualified and informed doctors than I, getting in there.  

Cardiac collapse, in elite sports people is far from unknown.   The Fabrice Muaumba case in 2012 was way before Covid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Muamba) and the Wiki also has a whole page discussion the scenario in lay-person's detail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_cardiac_death_of_athletes) where myocarditis is listed as a very small contributor.    This paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1769182/ ) from 2005 - 2005! - was stimulated by "the highly publicised sudden deaths of several elite professional athletes" and  cites hypertrophic cardiomyopathy as causing a third of such deaths.

Please Kevin, don't pander to the rumour-mongers!       Myocarditis after Covid vaccine is a rare complication, in young people.   It is unpleasant and frightening, but in the UK there have been NO fatalities from it.

JOhn

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

We must remember  this is a new virus and new vaccines that have been given Emergency Use Authorisation and so not tested to the usual rigorous criteria. The mRNA versions are advancing into especially new territory. The abstract refers to a new form of coronary epithelial inflammation mediated by the pro-inflammatory cytokine LL16 first identified about four years ago. Newness adds great uncertainty and we need open minds. Doubling the risk of a cardiac event following a mRNA vaccine - from 10 to 5 years later - is a warning we are in uncharted waters.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

I was all ready to wade in and give Kevin (Box o'Bits) a lathering for spreading unfounded and irresponsible internet falsehoods, but I cannot do better than Mickey's report of far more qualified and informed doctors than I, getting in there.  

Cardiac collapse, in elite sports people is far from unknown.   The Fabrice Muaumba case in 2012 was way before Covid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Muamba) and the Wiki also has a whole page discussion the scenario in lay-person's detail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_cardiac_death_of_athletes) where myocarditis is listed as a very small contributor.    This paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1769182/ ) from 2005 - 2005! - was stimulated by "the highly publicised sudden deaths of several elite professional athletes" and  cites hypertrophic cardiomyopathy as causing a third of such deaths.

Please Kevin, don't pander to the rumour-mongers!       Myocarditis after Covid vaccine is a rare complication, in young people.   It is unpleasant and frightening, but in the UK there have been NO fatalities from it.

JOhn

 

Mere scientific enquiry John more than anything, and certainly not spreading hysteria. In fact last night I was arguing your point precisely that historically it’s not unknown for athletes to collapse with cardiomyopathy. However, what would make former players/athletes want to question recent events when they haven’t done so before?
 

I am not an anti-vaxer btw and have been double jabbed, so I am happy as it stands with the likelihood that on balance the vaccine is the best option. I do however think those concerns of Le Tissier for example should be treated with due respect.

Kevin

Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to hear you are not an ant-vaxxer, fully immunised, Kevin!     

But Matt Le Tissier?   "Former player, football pundit and commentator",    NOT a infectious disease, immunology or vaccine scientist.  And he has the gall, the arrogance, to post on Twitter, that bastion of informed content, that "I don’t care what people see me as, I stand up for what I believe in and I believe you should always have a choice wether or not to inject yourself with something that has death as a possible side effect no matter how rare that is."

He can believe what he likes, but telling people that the vaccine will kill them is like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded stadium, when there is none.   He is as irrepsonsible as he is ignorant and, with respect, Kevin, so are you to retail his dangerous views.

There are other views in football.      Jurgen Klopp, if I may say so a more distinguished footballer, who has done more and achieved more than Le Tissier, has ensured that the entire squad at Liverpool is fully vaccinated, without AFAIK anything other than the usual, trivial side effects.    

But it's not only footballers who can be led astray by false news.   Recently, I immunised a professional diver, who works at extreme depth.      He told me that in his community there is great concern about those trivial effects, because they include symptoms that can appear like those that a diver can suffer after a mismanaged dive, headache, fatigue, myalgia (pain or weakness of the muscles), arthralgia (joint pain), and nausea - Decompression Sickness,  the Bends.   If a diver suffers such an episode then they cannot work for a month!  Which of course would mean, no pay.    I'm glad to say that he had been persuaded to do the right thing and be immunised - by his wife!

John

Edited by john.r.davies
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Misfit said:

 

I think pleasantly offering a alternative opinion is more appropriate,  you think.

You mean take Kevin to the Baths and shampoo him, all over?    I don't think so!

Link to post
Share on other sites

1.1.529 info: https://theconversation.com/the-hunt-for-coronavirus-variants-how-the-new-one-was-found-and-what-we-know-so-far-172692

In Gauteng (i/c Jo'burg) it is spreading  fast, a 3 to 5-fold increase in 7 days.

Worse, for us, is recent data on population serum 25(OH)D is that Gauteng has reasonably good levels,ca 80 nmol/L. SInce UK mean is ca 45 the variant may be more dangerous when iit hits UK.  Even if it is nto killing thousands in SA does not mean it wont here.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Glad to hear you are not an ant-vaxxer, fully immunised, Kevin!     

But Matt Le Tissier?   "Former player, football pundit and commentator",    NOT a infectious disease, immunology or vaccine scientist.  And he has the gall, the arrogance, to post on Twitter, that bastion of informed content, that "I don’t care what people see me as, I stand up for what I believe in and I believe you should always have a choice wether or not to inject yourself with something that has death as a possible side effect no matter how rare that is."

He can believe what he likes, but telling people that the vaccine will kill them is like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded stadium, when there is none.   He is as irrepsonsible as he is ignorant and, with respect, Kevin, so are you to retail his dangerous views.

There are other views in football.      Jurgen Klopp, if I may say so a more distinguished footballer, who has done more and achieved more than Le Tissier, has ensured that the entire squad at Liverpool is fully vaccinated, without AFAIK anything other than the usual, trivial side effects.    

But it's not only footballers who can be led astray by false news.   Recently, I immunised a professional diver, who works at extreme depth.      He told me that in his community there is great concern about those trivial effects, because they include symptoms that can appear like those that a diver can suffer after a mismanaged dive, headache, fatigue, myalgia (pain or weakness of the muscles), arthralgia (joint pain), and nausea - Decompression Sickness,  the Bends.   If a diver suffers such an episode then they cannot work for a month!  Which of course would mean, no pay.    I'm glad to say that he had been persuaded to do the right thing and be immunised - by his wife!

John

John
 

I’ve not seen, endorsed or indeed even mentioned Matt Le Tissier’s Twitter post, and furthermore have not endorsed or reflected his views in detail, in particular on whether we should be given a choice over the vaccine or that it can potentially kill.  If I thought I was being injected with something that was potentially lethal I wouldn’t have taken up the jab in the first place. All I am saying is that they have raised an issue, and the foundation of their concerns deserve to be taken on board and listened to just like any others.

If I may say so your own reactions appear to be on the verge of the inflammatory and hysterical. As Peter says we are in uncharted territory still with both the virus and the vaccine, and we are all therefore at liberty to question its potential effects. That after all is the data science will need to make progress without which none of us can be conclusive about anything.
 

I’ll not react or take issue with the defamatory remarks you have made, but will take them with the pinch of salt they deserve.

Kevin

Edited by boxofbits
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

Interestingly because all the vaccines where created in short order - 1 year instead of the normal average 12 years - there must be potential for something

to go wrong.  That is NOT to say it will; it just has the potential.

The problem with 'potential' is that you do not know until it happens.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some science that may give us grief.   

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454 Worobey M., Dissecting the early COVID-19 cases in Wuhan, Science 18/11/2021

The first Covid case in Wuhan was not the man who was admitted to hospital on 8/12/2019, an accountant with no contact with the 'wet' market.    It was a man who sold seafood in the market, who fell ill on the 11th.     The first man was labelled as the such by the WHO team, but in fact was admitted to hopspital on the 8th with a tooth problem, and did not beome ill until the 16th.

All this of course discounts all those in the UK who proudly claim to have had Covid before that Xmas!

And at the Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies in New York, researchers have used an AI system to suggest species other than H.Sapiens that could harbour Covid.   It found 540 other species, including the Pangolins associated with its spread, the bats it came from and the white-tailed deer that are already known to have a high rate of infection in the US.   

See: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2021.1651

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, boxofbits said:

I do however think those concerns of Le Tissier for example should be treated with due respect.

Kevin

And then in a classic reverse ferret, said when challenged "I’ve not seen, endorsed or indeed even mentioned Matt Le Tissier’s Twitter post".    Maybe you didn't, Kevin, but you wanted to treat his ignorant views "with due respect."    

Le Tissier's assertion, that vaccines are damaging, is a classic example of how we may use the "Russel's Teapot" argument.    The philospher proposed as an absurd case that a teapot orbited the Sun, to show that those who put forward extraordinary claims have the burden of proof, not astronomers or in this case doctors.      I'm sure, Kevin that you will bring us the Le Tissier proof in due course.   Meanwhile, I will rely on those with more authority than a retired footballer.

Yes, Roger, a new treatment always has a potential for unexpected side effects or complications.   There was a cure for baldness, called 'sildenafil' that didn't help the follicularly challenged, but when they reported prolonged erections, became Viagra.     More seriously, the exceedly rare "vaccine-induced immune thrombocytopenia and thrombosis"  (VITT) has been noted in less than 200 recipients of the AZ vaccine in the UK, an incidence of 8 per million doses, less by many times than the risk of thrombosis in women who take oestrogen-based contraceptives.

The Yellow Card System was introduced long ago, to monitor rare side effects and compliactions of medical treatment.  Any one can register, no need to be a doctor, so if you have what you think might be a vaccine effect, or one of any treatment go to: https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/   You will be doing everyone a favour!

JOhn

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.