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German researchers claim to have found a common factor in some of those who have suffered blood clotting after AstraZeneca (AZ) vaccine:  https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-362354/v1

Their paper is in 'pre-print' form, not peer reveiewed or conventionally pubished, and includes 9 patients with blot clot problems, four of whom died.     Without saying if they were those who died (the tests could be done on living patients) it says that "four patients tested strongly positive for anti-PF4/heparin antibodies by immunoassay".   This refers to a condition that occurs, very rarely, in people treated with heparin, the anticoagulant, called 'Heparin induced thrombocytopenia'.  https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.g7566#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,and produce a hypercoagulable state.

The 'blood coagulation cascade' is a complex series of interactions that is the natural mechanism that leads to blood clotting.    Heparin may be given when abnormal clotting has occurred, or is feared, for instance after major surgery.    It binds to 'platelets' in the blood  to prevent them initiating a further cascade and to inhibit the formation of blood clots.    Very rarely, the heparin/platelet complex attracts antibodies, setting off the cascade again and causing blood clots where they should not be.        This 'uses up' platelets, so their number falls in the blood, which is "thrombocytopaenia".      The treatment is to stop heparin and use a different anticoagulant.

As this theory involves the immune system it has an immediate attraction when associated with a vaccine, but clearly needs much more work.    And even if it were to be substantiated, it is important to remember that abnormal blood clotting caused by Covid-19 is how it kills many people.  https://thorax.bmj.com/content/early/2021/03/24/thoraxjnl-2020-215383

And, Covid is a lethal and disabling condition, which can be largely and completely prevented by vaccination.     If - IF! - 'vaccine induced thrombocytopaenia' is a real thing, it will remain a very rare, and treatable, side effect.    The balance of risk remains very much much in favour of vaccination.

John

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23 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

German researchers claim to have found a common factor in some of those who have suffered blood clotting after AstraZeneca (AZ) vaccine:  https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-362354/v1

Their paper is in 'pre-print' form, not peer reveiewed or conventionally pubished, and includes 9 patients with blot clot problems, four of whom died.     Without saying if they were those who died (the tests could be done on living patients) it says that "four patients tested strongly positive for anti-PF4/heparin antibodies by immunoassay".   This refers to a condition that occurs, very rarely, in people treated with heparin, the anticoagulant, called 'Heparin induced thrombocytopenia'.  https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.g7566#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,and produce a hypercoagulable state.

The 'blood coagulation cascade' is a complex series of interactions that is the natural mechanism that leads to blood clotting.    Heparin may be given when abnormal clotting has occurred, or is feared, for instance after major surgery.    It binds to 'platelets' in the blood  to prevent them initiating a further cascade and to inhibit the formation of blood clots.    Very rarely, the heparin/platelet complex attracts antibodies, setting off the cascade again and causing blood clots where they should not be.        This 'uses up' platelets, so their number falls in the blood, which is "thrombocytopaenia".      The treatment is to stop heparin and use a different anticoagulant.

As this theory involves the immune system it has an immediate attraction when associated with a vaccine, but clearly needs much more work.    And even if it were to be substantiated, it is important to remember that abnormal blood clotting caused by Covid-19 is how it kills many people.  https://thorax.bmj.com/content/early/2021/03/24/thoraxjnl-2020-215383

And, Covid is a lethal and disabling condition, which can be largely and completely prevented by vaccination.     If - IF! - 'vaccine induced thrombocytopaenia' is a real thing, it will remain a very rare, and treatable, side effect.    The balance of risk remains very much much in favour of vaccination.

John

I have "sticky blood" (Factor V Leiden) so was particularly pleased to get my first jab (and it happened to be Pfizer anyway not AZ). But the heparin thing is interesting. I've had to jab myself with heparin a few times but with no ill effects. It'll be very unfortunate though if a very small, even if real, risk from vaccine induced clotting throws a spanner into mass vaccination roll out.

That old immune system is a fickle thing, ain't it.

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Indeed - you have been happy to accept heparin treatment, although the incidence of Heparin Induced Thrombocytpeania (HET) is 0.2%, or one in 500.   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21640991/#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,incidence of HIT is 0.2%.      In discussing any treatment, a doctor should include possible risks.    There are so many to any treatment that there has to be a limit, and that is usually set at those that may occur in 1%, one in a hundred, so I doubt if HET was mentioned to you!

Approx thirty case of thrombosis in post-vaccine people have been found, when in Europe, between 4 and 6% of the population has been vaccinated, which approximates to 40 million people.    So the incidence of Vaccine Associated Thromocytopaenia (VAT!), even if we treble the number found, is less than 100 in 40 million, equivalent to an incidence of 0.00025%.

HET is a rare complication of heparin treatment, which we continue to use as a valuable and life saving medicine.      VAT, if it is real, is one thousand times rarer than that, as a complication of a valuable and life saving treatment, yet the use of AZ vaccine has been halted in many countries!      Caution, unreasoning, unthinking caution, is one asset that is not in short supply!

AstraZeneca was persuaded by their partners in the development of the vaccine, Oxford University, that their product should be made available to the World at cost price.     Eventually, they may make about a billion pounds from it, when Pfizer, Monsanto etc will probably make ten or twenty times as much from thier vaccines, which are not as useful in developing countries that lack deep freeze chains to distribute the vaccines.   The payback AZ hoped for was Qudos as a global benefactor, but instead they have received consistent kickback and resistance from all sides.   A suspicious person would allege conspiracy!

John

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2 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Indeed - you have been happy to accept heparin treatment, although the incidence of Heparin Induced Thrombocytpeania (HET) is 0.2%, or one in 500.   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21640991/#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,incidence of HIT is 0.2%.      In discussing any treatment, a doctor should include possible risks.    There are so many to any treatment that there has to be a limit, and that is usually set at those that may occur in 1%, one in a hundred, so I doubt if HET was mentioned to you!

Ha ha, the first time I was given it was after ortho surgery in a French hospital, they certainly didn't discuss anything with me. But as I've noticed, French healthcare facilities do seem to like to give you a bulging 'party bag' to take away after every visit and that time it included a 12-pack of heparin for self-administration in the comfort of my own home.

There probably was discussion of VAT, but that was before they'd laid any hands on me and it was about the prospective bill... :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the problem is that we (the public) really struggle to assess relative risks especially of threats that are unfamiliar.

 

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2 hours ago, Bleednipple said:

I don't understand why you are so disparaging about it. It's a meta analysis and seems on the face of it to be competently performed in that light. 

I've only had a quick read through but the paper's interpretation section starts by saying: "Despite evidence of significant heterogeneity across trials, vitamin D supplementation was safe and overall reduced the risk of ARI compared with placebo, although the risk reduction was small." That seems an entirely reasonable conclusion from the analysis, given the way meta analyses are done. 

I realise that the report didn't then go on to speculate about "what ifs", eg what if more of the trials had involved much higher doses, or what if studies had looked at different disease phenomena, or whatever. But the scope of the analysis was just to say, what does the RCT evidence to date tell us about vitamin D supplementation and the risk of ARIs, and present the analysis.

That does then of course to allow individual researchers, as a next step, to explore the analysis, identify interesting correlations within the analysis, including those having small n, as a starting point for replication studies at larger scale and/or magnifying the interesting 'signal' variables (in this case, perhaps looking at higher dose levels). As you say, "identifying the exceptional then following that clue".

Nigel

 

Many of the RCTs had not heeded the paper I cited which was published in 2012. That clue has been ignored for a decade. It is all too easy to design an RCT for D3 picking a dose deemd safe by bone-merchants and publish negative results. The Swedish study worked and has not been followed up:  in April 2020 the lead author Martineau started a trial using 800 and 3200 IU for C19 , ignoring the Swedish study. The standard of research is appallingly bad, and meta-analyses compound that by giving credibility to bad trials, stultifiyng the field and delaying progress.

Here is how to do a proper D3 intervention study, in this case  folllowing its effect at a range of doses and measured 25(OH)D on the conversion of pre-diabetes to T2DM. 4000 IU per day and 25(OH)D > 125 nmol/L was the most effective. This is how D3 trials should be designed, using a wide range of doses. It gives a clear result.

https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/43/12/2916.abstract

Doubtless meta-analyses form D3-deniers will be published in whcih this solid peice of science is diluted by failed trials.

Meta-anlyses that include failed rrials- the majority of D3 trials are fialures - give equal credibilty to succesfull trials. That is nonsensical suituation and it is nto how science makes progress. "You cannot prove a negative"..........but negatives are included in meta-analyses.

Peter

 

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https://royalsociety.org/science-events-and-lectures/2021/04/long-covid/?fbclid=IwAR0ep-IcEdvHLmt6vB81JVdHAUtTqmoL4J2OErbjNZRHcoqznTkR1ALUxoY

This may be of interest, "Long Covid: an unfolding story" a seminar from the Royal Society, chaired by Brian Cox.

He's a bit Marmite, I know, but the RS gets the biggest names in any science subject to talk.     It'll be done, Zoom-style, and anyone can 'attend'.

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The organiser of the Covid symptom study, Prof.Tim Spector of Kings College Hospital, and Dr.John Campbell debate the role of Vit D in health and Covid:

Prof. Spector has been an advocate of VitD in many conditions from Rheumatoid arthritis to depression, but has found that it does not benefit conditions and most others that have been studied.  Levels are low in chronic disease, but supplements do not improve them, or the chronic condition.   Dr.Campbell is an advoicate of VitD supplements, for people in the colder, northern world, rubbishes megadose vitamin consumption and has many examples of the physiological uses of VitD, but not of the efficacy of VitD treatment or prophylaxis.

They agree that there is no 'normal' VitD level, that 'optimising' your immune system by adequate diet and vitamins is an advantage, but that system cannot be 'boosted' by anything other than an effective vaccine.

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24 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

The organiser of the Covid symptom study, Prof.Tim Spector of Kings College Hospital, and Dr.John Campbell debate the role of Vit D in health and Covid:

Prof. Spector has been an advocate of VitD in many conditions from Rheumatoid arthritis to depression, but has found that it does not benefit conditions and most others that have been studied.  Levels are low in chronic disease, but supplements do not improve them, or the chronic condition.   Dr.Campbell is an advoicate of VitD supplements, for people in the colder, northern world, rubbishes megadose vitamin consumption and has many examples of the physiological uses of VitD, but not of the efficacy of VitD treatment or prophylaxis.

They agree that there is no 'normal' VitD level, that 'optimising' your immune system by adequate diet and vitamins is an advantage, but that system cannot be 'boosted' by anything other than an effective vaccine.

Spector's opinions on D3 cannot be trusted. I have had a run-in with him before:

https://theconversation.com/vitamin-d-a-pseudo-vitamin-for-a-pseudo-disease-101907

note rebuke by David B Karpf.

Spector's knowledge of D3 is rudimentary,he believes only in BIG metaanalyses of RCTs, whcih as we have discussed several time in this thread are void if physiological 25(OH)D is not acheived, and that invalidates the vast majority of RCTs.

His extrapolation from "D3 is no use for osteoporosis " to "D3 is no good" fro all conditions is ludicrous, and he has repeated that  stance for C-19, despite large volumes of evidence , much of which is covered in this thread.

I do not regard Campbell either as expert on D3. However he has been very good at putting across the use of D3 for C-19 even at doses ( ca 3000 IU pd) that Spectre dismisses off hand

Peter

 

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This is a worry for vaccine-based strategy, The coronavirus mutates so rapidly that it can evolve under slective pressure from antibodies, in an individual. Quote;

"Our results demonstrate the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 genetic variants under host immune pressure during acute infection."

https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009431

I have a looming sense that the wheels are coming off the global battle  against the virus. No vaccination programme can conceivably compete with such extreme rapidity of virus evolution.

Peter

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Document sent recently to all MSPs. Might be useful for D3 newbies on here to catch up  Peter

https://scots4vitd.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/brief-covid19-and-vitamin-d-march-2021-pdf.pdf

 

 

 

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A philosophy that rejects all views other than the Received Wisdom is akin to a religion.

I've tried to introduce some heretical views into this debate, and every time they are discounted.   Not argued against or countered with other evidence, but discounted, as 'unreliable', untrustworthy or just untrue.

There ain't no point in trying to convert the converted.

JOhn

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John, You have as mcuh abilty to understand the D3 debate as I have, yet you do not see the evidence as compelling. I have supplied a year of evidence for roles of D3 and I am not prepared to arguen each and every minor point. "You can take a horse to water etc "

Butin view of your enthusiasm for vaccination I do think you owe the thread your considered  response to this.

2 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

This is a worry for vaccine-based strategy, The coronavirus mutates so rapidly that it can evolve under slective pressure from antibodies, in an individual. Quote;

"Our results demonstrate the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 genetic variants under host immune pressure during acute infection."

https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009431

I have a looming sense that the wheels are coming off the global battle  against the virus. No vaccination programme can conceivably compete with such extreme rapidity of virus evolution.

Peter

Peter

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14 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

John, You have as mcuh abilty to understand the D3 debate as I have, yet you do not see the evidence as compelling. I have supplied a year of evidence for roles of D3 and I am not prepared to arguen each and every minor point. "You can take a horse to water etc "

Butin view of your enthusiasm for vaccination I do think you owe the thread your considered  response to this.

Peter

To me at least, it beats the hell out of doing nothing Pete, plus looks as though if you are quick you are in with a chance.

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This paper should be of interest to pts with MS, Lyme and many other conditions as yet hinted at. The Coimbra protocol has been used in Brazil for 15 years and involves very high dose D3 under careful diet and clinical monitoring to treat MS. Doses around 100,000 IU pd are used. This paper describes an acquired resistance to 1,25 (OH)D by the Vitamin D Receptors. There are no Coimbra pratitioners in UK,yet. But the clinical tests are mostly within a GP;s repertoire.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.655739/full

Peter

 

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2 hours ago, barkerwilliams said:

Peter,

Its the NHS motto at work  "Keep them sick, keep them dependant"

Alan

 

and I trusted them, until I became D3-aware. 

D-uffers in the NHS are responsible in my mind for the biggest-ever range of morbidities, all iatrogenic by ommission of D3 science.

Its a global problem. But Pakiistan govt has just opened a D3 Institute. maybe the NHS will learn form them...................................in the fullness of time

Peter

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This Covi19 Antibody Test arrived today, I’ll let you know the result when I do the test.

9D9A2002-C1BC-49CC-93C7-055B727B7DD3.jpeg

Edited by SuzanneH
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Now we see why SAGE, NICE et al ignore D3.   Regulations protect emergency-use of vaccines if there are no alternatives.

If leading world health authorities, such as WHO, EU-regulators, and CDC accept any alternative agent for COVID-19, they cannot use the “emergency use authorization” (EUA) for COVID-19 vaccines (mRNA and adenovirus vaccines). Thus, they will not authorize other agents due to conflicts of interest. None of the COVID-19 vaccines have been licensed to date: insufficient safety data, especially on longer-term safety. The refusal to accept the availability of effective, alternative agents to prevent or treat COVID-19 allows administrations to bypass the system EUA rule to use “unlicensed” COVID-vaccines. When an alternative agent available (nutrient, drug, or a method) to prevent or treat COVID-19, the EUA for COVID-19 expires, and current vaccines cannot be used legally. 

This from a USA contributor to the group. I suspect it has been adopted (legally?) by UK. It explains why Wellcome-Gates banned funding for hormones (ie D3) from its inauguration. It explains why David Davis MP Early Day motion has vanished without trace. And why Vallance invested £600K of his own cash in vaccines: all competition from other prophylactic agents eg D3 has been nobbled from the get-go.

I have been wasting my time the past 13 months. SAGE and DHSC are  not ignorant of D3 they see it as a threat to the vaccine companies.

Furiously,  Peter

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Please be careful, Peter.  Your last post is awfully like the QAnon/David Icke posts that see tiny coincidences as evidence of major conspiracies, let alone an Illuminati of extraterrestrial, paedophile, blood-drinking lizards, as equal in evil as only the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath & Wells!

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I said I would let you know the result of my U.K. Biobank Cov19 Antibody test when I had taken it. Well I did it about an hour ago and the result was negative.

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