CORONAVIRUS

[SuzanneH]

2 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

UK species of deer don't 'migrate' like polar caribou or reindeer do.  You may have heard the term "hefted", used by shepherds who know that their sheep are highly territorial and will wander only within tight boundaries.   Wild deer are also territorial and while doe may move between stags' locations, they are confined by him once taken in. 

You produce opinuion, I produce fact.   Try producing evidence instead.  

What about the Muntjac that are usually solitary when ihave seen them here?

[john.r.davies]

"Muntjac are territorial, occupying areas of around 14 hectares which they rarely leave."

Chaffin, W., Veterinary Nursing Journal, Muntjac Deer Fact File, Nov 2014

 

[Peter Cobbold]

Deer spp distribution maps: https://www.bds.org.uk/science-research/deer-surveys/deer-distribution-survey/

muntjac were introduced to Woburn Beds in 1804

I came across them in mid-Essex 1960.

not here yet, but give them time, the habitat is suitable.

hope they are good eating

Peter

 

[SuzanneH]

50 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said:

hope they are good eating

Peter

 

A very interesting point Peter!  I don’t like Venison at all and cannot bear the smell of it raw, however I do cook it for Roger occasionally. What I want to know is, do different types of Deer taste the same? 
The Venison we can buy in the supermarket is just labelled Venison so there is no way of telling which type of Deer the meat is from.

Obviously if we were to buy from one of the “ Estates” in this neck of the woods we would be able to know what type of Deer it was, but I doubt I could buy just one serving. 
Even  “ roadkill” would be identifiable.

Not the kind of problem people have out in the sticks.

The only time I ever enjoyed Venison was when a Vegetarian friend cooked a haunch for her non vegetarian husband one Christmas and we were invited just after Christmas and had some served cold and finely sliced it really was very good but I just don’t like it hot.

Edited March 11, 2021 by SuzanneH

[Peter Cobbold]

11 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

A very interesting point Peter!  I don’t like Venison at all and cannot bear the smell of it raw, however I do cook it for Roger occasionally. What I want to know is, do different types of Deer taste the same? 
The Venison we can buy in the supermarket is just labelled Venison so there is no way of telling which type of Deer the meat is from.

Obviously if we were to buy from one of the “ Estates” in this neck of the woods we would be able to know what type of Deer it was, but I doubt I could buy just one serving. 
Even  “ roadkill” would be identifiable.

Not the kind of problem people have out in the sticks.

The only time I ever enjoyed Venison was when a Vegetarian friend cooked a haunch for her non vegetarian husband one Christmas and we were invited just after Christmas and had some served cold and finely sliced it really was very good but I just don’t like it hot.

Sue, You can probably buy estate-sourced venison and pheasant pie, in season.

but not around here.....yet

Peter

[Bleednipple]

3 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

"Muntjac are territorial, occupying areas of around 14 hectares which they rarely leave."

Yeah the b*** muntjac that keeps jumping into our garden is certainly loath to leave, and that's definitely less than 14 hectares.

(That's evidence by the way, small sample study admittedly).

I THINK they are good eating, but as our local butcher doesn't have a game licence so can't have sold us any muntjac roadkill at all, I couldn't possibly be sure...

NIGEL

[stuart]

My local farm shop does venison and venison burgers too, low fat and tasty. We have deer of all varieties round here as theres several deer farms and they often escape.

Stuart.

[barkerwilliams]

Getting way, way off topic here but muntjac often through my fields. Fallow deer we don't see too often though they live in the woods around us and in a hard winter they come down to eat the horses food.

https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/about-lyme/faq/

n the United Kingdom, Lyme disease is known to be carried mainly by small mammals, such as mice and voles, and birds, though larger mammals can also carry it. Ticks feeding on these animals pick up the Lyme disease bacteria and pass them on to the next animal they feed on. Ticks can also feed on deer, cattle and sheep, which appear to kill the bacteria in the tick (9).  Ticks cannot stand drying out, so tend to live in long grass, gardens, woods and moorland. People who live, work or have a holiday in places that can harbour ticks are likely to be at greater risk, as are those in urban areas with overgrown gardens or with extensive parks. Anyone can get Lyme disease if a tick that is carrying the infection has bitten them.

and still the medical profession denies it, the ostrich theme rolls.

Alan

 

[barkerwilliams]

Back to Coronavirus.

I realise this might be a little inflammatory but....

Treatment for covid. The way I understand it in the uk, certainly in 2020 if you had covid and ended up in hospital you would be isolated, and given assistance to breathe possibly on a ventilator where additional treatment would be given to compensate for the damage caused by the ventilation. Eventually CPAP machine were brought in as a breathing aid with much less damage to the patient.

But by and large there was no treatment for a coronavirus infection, the patient's treatment was to be stabilised and fed oxygen until their own immune systems won, or lost the battle.

Now I might be incorrect in this and would be happy to be told otherwise. What I read from abroad though is that other countries tried various treatments on their patients from Ivermectin, calcifediol, dexamethasone, hydroxychloroquine, and whatever else at least they were trying.

It occurs to me that if I was laid on my death bed I would prefer experimental treatment, even if it killed me at least the knowledge gained from the experiment would have some benefit to others. Leaving me in my bed to die would not advance medical knowledge one iota and my death would have been in vain. But NHS seemed happy to allow the nature knows best approach and the increasing numbers of patients led to triaging and sending patients to a sure and certain death treatmentless.

Is that by and large correct?

Alan

 

 

[barkerwilliams]

https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/03/11/preclinical-vitamin-d-prevents-multiple-sclerosis-mice/

[iain]

13 hours ago, barkerwilliams said:

Back to Coronavirus.

I realise this might be a little inflammatory but....

Treatment for covid. The way I understand it in the uk, certainly in 2020 if you had covid and ended up in hospital you would be isolated, and given assistance to breathe possibly on a ventilator where additional treatment would be given to compensate for the damage caused by the ventilation. Eventually CPAP machine were brought in as a breathing aid with much less damage to the patient.

But by and large there was no treatment for a coronavirus infection, the patient's treatment was to be stabilised and fed oxygen until their own immune systems won, or lost the battle.

Now I might be incorrect in this and would be happy to be told otherwise. What I read from abroad though is that other countries tried various treatments on their patients from Ivermectin, calcifediol, dexamethasone, hydroxychloroquine, and whatever else at least they were trying.

It occurs to me that if I was laid on my death bed I would prefer experimental treatment, even if it killed me at least the knowledge gained from the experiment would have some benefit to others. Leaving me in my bed to die would not advance medical knowledge one iota and my death would have been in vain. But NHS seemed happy to allow the nature knows best approach and the increasing numbers of patients led to triaging and sending patients to a sure and certain death treatmentless.

Is that by and large correct?

Alan

 

 

In a word no.

An example of treatment for non icu patients

https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/coronavirus-staff/clinical-info-pathways/clinical-info-pathways-downloads/covid-quick-guide.pdf

[Peter Cobbold]

16 hours ago, barkerwilliams said:

https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/03/11/preclinical-vitamin-d-prevents-multiple-sclerosis-mice/

D3 and MS have a long history sionce the Garland brothers identified a NE-SW gradient in USA, in incidence.  Abundant evidence of inlvolvment exist eg

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7218089/

- so use of D3 is not recognised clinically.

However there  exist interesting smoking guns, especially in use fo high D3 doses. The Coimbra protocol uses very high D3 supplements ( ca 50,000 IU pd) with careful monotirng of  blood and urinc calcium, dietray restricition of calcium and good dailt water intake. Little published, But the rational for D3 doses of 10,000 IU  pd rather than 4000 is shown in this paper, where gene expression/repression rose dramatically ( in vivo, white blood cells): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53864-1?fbclid=IwAR1RPzxndR2xofPoco1Jee23aJEDQsNWMXUg8qd2JARO_l8aRkTGMCY0XYs

And high dose D3 (oral 40,000 IU pd) is used - by one of the authors - to suppress psoriasis plaques: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202103.0061/v1  note fig1.  There is a paper in there citing one case of reversing PD with 20,000 IU pd, which I am about to try myself.

It must never be forgotten that serum 25(OH)D is a precursor to the actual intracellular signal 1,25(OH)D that binds to the VDR, It is quite possible that in immune cells 1,25(OH)D is suppressed by proinflammatory signals blocking its production for 25(OH)D,  and  hence more 25(OH)D is needed to overcome that. 

Peter

 

[Peter Cobbold]

20 hours ago, barkerwilliams said:

Getting way, way off topic here but muntjac often through my fields. Fallow deer we don't see too often though they live in the woods around us and in a hard winter they come down to eat the horses food.

https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/about-lyme/faq/

n the United Kingdom, Lyme disease is known to be carried mainly by small mammals, such as mice and voles, and birds, though larger mammals can also carry it. Ticks feeding on these animals pick up the Lyme disease bacteria and pass them on to the next animal they feed on. Ticks can also feed on deer, cattle and sheep, which appear to kill the bacteria in the tick (9).  Ticks cannot stand drying out, so tend to live in long grass, gardens, woods and moorland. People who live, work or have a holiday in places that can harbour ticks are likely to be at greater risk, as are those in urban areas with overgrown gardens or with extensive parks. Anyone can get Lyme disease if a tick that is carrying the infection has bitten them.

and still the medical profession denies it, the ostrich theme rolls.

Alan

 

Medics shoudl take it seriously, Borrelia has tricks for avoiding all our immune defences:   https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0817/10/3/281/pdf

But that begs the question why most infections  resolve whilea few get chronic debilitating disease.

Peter

[john.r.davies]

Meanwhile, really effective treatment is acheived in my area:

Cohort 1 - Care Homes. 97% vaccinated

Cohort 2 - 80 yrs +        99% 

Cohort 3 - 75-79             99%

Cohort 4 - 70-74              96%

Cohort 5  - 65-69             90%

No doubt you can report similar success.

[Peter Cobbold]

Better in fact, my cohort is 100% vaccinated

the both of us.

And neither of us refused it: 100% acceptance.

What's more no blood  clots to show for it.

Peter & Isy

[john.r.davies]

No vaccinations this week, none at all.

But from tomorrow, there will be 24/7 shifts  - well, AM and PM, plus some evening shifts, every day of the week - as we get into the 50 year olds.     The vaccination programme has to be the NHS's Finest Hour!

Edited March 13, 2021 by john.r.davies

[Rod1883]

It really has been, and remains, a fantastic effort by everyone involved throughout the supply chain John.

Rod

[john.r.davies]

Absolutely, Rod!      MBE's all round!    No, hang on, they cost £35 each (plus VAT!) - we can't afford that!

[stillp]

There have been a few mentions in the press about a shortage of the glass vials - are these being recycled?

Pete

[barkerwilliams]

Iain,

I am pleased with the information that you included but the leaflet is dated 22nd  February 2021 and I particularly referred to the situation in 2020.

Great to see vaccination is proceeding apace and the published figures for deaths and infections and reducing nicely.

Alan

[Peter Cobbold]

The acid test of the vaccination programme is whether it is effective against all the new variants that will arise during this year. Evolution will accelerate as  the fraction of the global population resists current strains, either by infection or vaccination. But recognition of these new strains , necessary to rejig vaccines, depends upon having genomic sequencing  technology that many nations lack, and in which UK excels. That might seem to be useful to us, excpet that the UK case rate will plummet this summer, as last, reducing the infections 50-100 fold. Identifying the new nastier variants may be impaired until infections pick up again next winter. By then it will be too late to re-jig the vaccine, produce it and revaccinate.    As it is likely that the summer plunge in cases is caused by sunshine raising 25(OH)D ( from 50 to 75 nmol/L) and as innate immune defences, eg cathelicidin, lyse the capsular membrane all variants, the failure of SAGE to recognise D3 as important will lead them into a false sense of security as to the efficacy of the vaccine against new variants, until it is to late. We have all our eggs in one basket/glass vial. We might be lucky, butu we might not.

Peter

 

 

[ntc]

2 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Absolutely, Rod!      MBE's all round!    No, hang on, they cost £35 each (plus VAT!) - we can't afford that!

The reward you must have with every injection you do is how many lives you may have saved that would be the case for me if I could do it. Well done you 

[john.r.davies]

Sometimes irony falls on stoney ground.

[barkerwilliams]

John,

A touch of the old Matthew 13:20-22 there.

You may have guessed from my very subtle (i'm Yorkshire) hints that there are aspects of the NHS that I would gladly throw on the bonfire, but the vaccination effort led by Kate Bingham and the UK Vaccine Taskforce together with the NHS have done a bloody good job of getting what vaccine there is into as many arms as quickly as possible. A quick scan of the falling deaths shows the progress and hopefully now the quick return of the NHS resources to treating other deserving illnesses. 

Thanks to all involved in that, yourself included.

Alan

Edited March 13, 2021 by barkerwilliams

[iain]

On 3/13/2021 at 2:37 PM, barkerwilliams said:

Iain,

I am pleased with the information that you included but the leaflet is dated 22nd  February 2021 and I particularly referred to the situation in 2020.

Great to see vaccination is proceeding apace and the published figures for deaths and infections and reducing nicely.

Alan

Have a read, your view is a little simplistic, with treatment varying dependant upon comorbidities and individual needs.

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/conditions-and-diseases/respiratory-conditions/covid19/products?ProductType=Guidance&Status=Published

These guidelines have evolved thought out the epidemic and appear in reverse chronological order.