Jump to content

Recommended Posts

You recall the Mantoux, or tuberculin test, stuart, previously (if you were at scholl before 2005!) the Heaf or Tine test.    It injects an extract of TB into the skin and a significant reaction reveals that you have, or have been exposed to, TB, in which case there's no point in the BCG as it won't treat an active TB infection.     Anyone with a positive Mantoux should have follow-up investigation/monitoring.     

Edited by john.r.davies
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

HELP THE NHS ~ I've let my adjoining empty house (fully furnished) to four NHS nurses free of charge during this National Emergency. We have a very large General Hospital at the top of the r

Very very Harsh Geko. I see a man, in an unenviable position, doing his utmost to balance the impossible tasks of trying to control the spread of a new novel virus - for which there is no treatme

By the book...

Posted Images

14 hours ago, Bobbie said:

Brilliant guys, 

Peter, that link to your talk suddenly looked familiar, having binge read the 43 pages I recall seeing it.

i had a salient lesson in awareness of vulnerability about 3 years ago, when I was struck down with encephalitis, and due to delayed diagnosis, a month pretty much in a coma before diagnosis, it’s been a long road back to normality.

As a result, and turning 60 this year, I don’t take health for granted anymore.......

...taking for granted...          sounds familiar, me too. Until my right hand started to shake and my handwriting went tiny. I rapidly read up on Parkinson's and the interest in D3 started from there.

 

I have just read a book "Brain Fables" by Alberto Espay a long established Parkinson's researcher that questions the fundamental thinking about how PD and Alzheimer's happen. He destroys the central dogma of aberrant protiens ( synuclein, tau, amyloid) being causative, despite post mortem brains being, mostly, stuffed with them. When a big pharma invented a drug  to reduce tau in early-stage Alz, what  they found was the disease speeded up :(. So after billions of dollars has been spent we are no further towards a cure than 20 years ago, still at the "that's odd" level of understanding.  I suspect that chronic life-long deficiency of D3 contributes to both diseases,it controls dozens of genes implicated in both, and tell the younger family members to act just in case. That big pharma that found its  drug made patients worse has pulled out of neurodegenration research. Back to square one.

This thread has focused on D3 for covid but its effects on our health is highly likely to be far-reaching: see vitamindwiki.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

TB of the skin was originally treated with UV light, and a Nobel was awarded in 1903. Cod Liver Oil was later used to treat TB in lungs. The factor common to sunlight and  CLO is now known to be vitamin D3. But D3 has been forgotten in the rush towards antibiotics and vaccines. More here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960076017301929

Ignorance of D3 is still widespread, possibly because it is seen by most of the medical profession as a vitamin and consigned to the academic ghetto of "nutrition", when in reality it is a hormone with widespread actions.

Peter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Birmingham university study of  Covid infections & Vit D deficiencies in nursing staff.

Not news to readers of this forum.

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/university/colleges/mds/news/2020/10/vitamin-d-covid.aspx#:~:text=Healthcare workers who self-isolated,University of Birmingham has found.

 

Alan

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, barkerwilliams said:

From Oz views of how much sun you get in the UK (except for '76 when we were there) and Pete's comments on Vit D3 levels, the Vit D deficiency level of 15.6.% doesn't seem all that high a figure.

Maybe it wasn't just D3 being measured, even though most likely, and Pete's recommendations on blood levels are much higher than the accepted norms anyway.

Sometimes these articles don't always tell you what you thought from the heading you were going to find out.

Edited by little jim
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, little jim said:

From Oz views of how much sun you get in the UK (except for '76 when we were there) and Pete's comments on Vit D3 levels, the Vit D deficiency level of 15.6.% doesn't seem all that high a figure.

Maybe it wasn't just D3 being measured, even though most likely, and Pete's recommendations on blood levels are much higher than the accepted norms anyway.

Sometimes these articles don't always tell you what you thought from the heading you were going to find out.

The article does not define deficiency. NICE regards deficiency as <25 nmol/L, based upon avoding rickets or osteomalacia. That "accepted norm" is now shown to be waaaaay too low for optimisng immunity. Physiological is 100 -150 nmol/L, and if that were used all the cohort under study would be  deficient.

An issue with the study is 25(OH) was measured after infection and we know that 25(OH) is used up during infection. Pre-infection levells may have been higher.

Also no account was taken of responsivity of immune cells to 25(OH). BAME are known to be low as are ca one third of Caucasians. The "safe" level of 25(OH) if it to protect as many as possible needs to be set much higher than the 50nmol/L average in the UK population

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Frankly if I were an oldie in the NW I'd be really scared, winter is only just beginning and the youngsters  dont give a damn. Burnham presumably  sees more political mileage in rooting for jobs for  the youngsters that in their elders' lives. And when it comes to triage for the limited supply of ICU the young will get preferential access.

This winter is going to be indescribably horrible for the elderly and infirm.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you conceive of the idea that Burnham might be concerned for the livelihoods of the many small NW businesses that will be knocked flat again by this?       The virus spreads when people come into close contact with each other.   If the schools are to keep open, something else in society must close.  Pubs, cafes, restaurants, the 'hospitality' industry is what has to shut, but their sacrifice should be recognised by the rest of us.   What is the political point in that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I love going to our local pub and quality of life would be severely diminished, imho, without it. What my local pub is though bears no resemblance to the town and city centre establishments that either can't or won't control their patrons whilst on the premises, neither does my local attract the type of clientele that pour out at 10pm and continue to drink and party en masse on the street. "My" local is closed Monday and Tuesday, and closes at 9pm Weds - Sat, 5pm on Sunday. I and the others that frequent it do not fall out at closing time to fight, drink and worse in the street.

The towns and cities being affected are those where the rule flouting behaviour has been prevalent. I accept that it is unfair on all the other impacted businesses in those places but what are the Government/councils to do? Perhaps the answer is to close for a period of three months or more all central town/city pubs/clubs as these are the catalyst for people flouting the rules. It will be unfair on those that are not to blame in these areas, but clearly people cannot be trusted to disperse sensibly or stop drinking at 10pm.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope you can open and see this link, this may explain the problem in the large conurbations;

 

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/southall-police-break-up-wedding-19111458?fbclid=IwAR14du9neXOH-5z050gH4huxjluafyDDBPNDtPACzcv8QYJ4djlZtlN5zCY

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/vitamin-d-supplements-recommended-matt-hancock-covid-19-725284

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8844255/Now-Matt-Hancock-says-vitamin-D-amid-mounting-evidence-protects-against-Covid-19.html

And a few other press stories of uk government to recommend vit d. Now just need to get the recommended dose sorted.

Alan

Edited by barkerwilliams
Link to post
Share on other sites

I went for my weekly shop today.  Everyone in Sainsburys wore a mask - but then they have someone on the door to ask you to.    I then walked up and down our main shopping street on another errand, and about half were masked, while many of the unmasked stood about as people often do in small groups and chatted, shoulder to shoulder.    Not feckless youth, but mature adults.   And we are about to go into Tier 3!

I suppose you could day they were catching a few rays and raising their VitD levels!

John

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, SuzanneH said:

I hope you can open and see this link, this may explain the problem in the large conurbations;

 

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/southall-police-break-up-wedding-19111458?fbclid=IwAR14du9neXOH-5z050gH4huxjluafyDDBPNDtPACzcv8QYJ4djlZtlN5zCY

 

 

 

Sue,

And what religion was the wedding?

Graham

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

I went for my weekly shop today.  Everyone in Sainsburys wore a mask - but then they have someone on the door to ask you to.    I then walked up and down our main shopping street on another errand, and about half were masked, while many of the unmasked stood about as people often do in small groups and chatted, shoulder to shoulder.    Not feckless youth, but mature adults.   And we are about to go into Tier 3!

I suppose you could day they were catching a few rays and raising their VitD levels!

John

I fear this is a typical scene in towns and cities throughout England. It's hard to see how the Westminster government can control the spread of covid, short of total lock down. The general public seems unable or unwilling to accept nuanced guidance in order to maintain some desirable social freedoms.

Add to that the political game playing over placing Manchester into tier 3 controls, and perhaps the only way to control spread of the virus is complete, nationwide lock down.

Sadly, if the population won't accept current lesser measures and the politicians can't work together to provide leadership for the national good, there are only two choices... Full national lock down with attendant economic carnage, or let the infection rip through the population, overwhelm the NHS and cause huge mortality among the elderly and vulnerable.

Nigel

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Nigel Triumph said:

I fear this is a typical scene in towns and cities throughout England. It's hard to see how the Westminster government can control the spread of covid, short of total lock down. The general public seems unable or unwilling to accept nuanced guidance in order to maintain some desirable social freedoms.

Add to that the political game playing over placing Manchester into tier 3 controls, and perhaps the only way to control spread of the virus is complete, nationwide lock down.

Sadly, if the population won't accept current lesser measures and the politicians can't work together to provide leadership for the national good, there are only two choices... Full national lock down with attendant economic carnage, or let the infection rip through the population, overwhelm the NHS and cause huge mortality among the elderly and vulnerable.

Nigel

Nope you screwed up in your area you pay the price and stay away from those that don’t 

why should those suffer for idiots 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

I went for my weekly shop today.  Everyone in Sainsburys wore a mask - but then they have someone on the door to ask you to.    I then walked up and down our main shopping street on another errand, and about half were masked, while many of the unmasked stood about as people often do in small groups and chatted, shoulder to shoulder.    Not feckless youth, but mature adults.   And we are about to go into Tier 3!

I suppose you could day they were catching a few rays and raising their VitD levels!

John

During the earlier parts of the crisis I noted that Sainsbury’s always required customers to pick up their trolleys from the storage area and queue with the trolley for maybe 20 minutes outside before getting to the trolley cleaning point.  During that time you would be touching your face etc as we all do regularly.  Others retailers such as M&S or Aldi handed you a cleaned trolley at the door.   I pointed it out to Sainsbury’s customer services but it was like I was from another planet.  
 

last week in Sainsbury’s there was a man, probably in his late 50’s without a face covering.  Now he may have had a health reason not to wear one but when he got within six inches of my partner to reach something on a shelf I had to pull her away.  That’s been the most frustrating part of this, the complete lack of any patience of shoppers and failing to socially distance as a result.   I see it every week.   I doubt I’ll ever visit Tesco again after we went there once a few months ago. 

Paul

Edited by PaulAnderson
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Government try to set guidelines/rules that allow reasonable freedoms. The media and others undermine that by trying to find scenarios that don't 'fit' and look to catch out ministers and others with inane questioning. A significant minority flout the rules/guidance.

All this will lead to a severe Winter of increasing Covid incidence, and sadly death.

What are we to do? Sadly I do not know. It seems to me that Social Responsibility is sadly lacking in a significant minority - and this is enough to allow the virus to spread widely as we enter Winter.

Diana and I go back onto our Vit D supplements tomorrow after soaking up as much as we could naturally over the Summer/early Autumn.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grahamgl said:

Sue,

And what religion was the wedding?

Graham

In Southall (London Borough of Ealing ) West  London, just across the grand union canal from us in Hayes, ( London Borough of Hillingdon) West London. 
Ealing has the highest incidence of Covid in London and is in the same Health Authority as Hillingdon.

This was on breakfast TV this morning, something I don’t normally watch but we are away at the moment so just happened to see it on TV.

Edited by SuzanneH
Link to post
Share on other sites

Before anyone makes any more racial allegations, this enterprising couple got married recently, in front of a crowd of guests,  who watched on a big screen from their cars!  All entirely Covid compliant!

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-couple-get-married-in-front-of-200-guests-by-having-a-drive-in-wedding-12098373

John

Edited by john.r.davies
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Before anyone makes any more racial allegations, this enterprising couple got married recently, in front of a crowd of guests,  who watched on a big screen from their cars!  All entirely Covid compliant!

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-couple-get-married-in-front-of-200-guests-by-having-a-drive-in-wedding-12098373

John

Eh...Wha... "Before anyone makes any more racial allegations"...I missed that !

I've scanned through these last 4 or 5 posts and I can't see what you refer to John.

Mick Richards 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, RobH said:

May be this will help to put things into perspective:

https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

Hmmmm. The last sentence but one (cases,deaths now 4x lower than ion spring) can be attributed to higher post-summer 25(OH)D. Antibodies to a virus are not necessarily inactivating. Pandemic SARS has much higher affinity fro the ACE-2 receptor and may  well escape antibodies to earlier related viruses.

I'm not a fan of SAGE, obviously, but this guy is too broad-brush speculation for me.

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Rod1883 said:

The Government try to set guidelines/rules that allow reasonable freedoms. The media and others undermine that by trying to find scenarios that don't 'fit' and look to catch out ministers and others with inane questioning. A significant minority flout the rules/guidance.

All this will lead to a severe Winter of increasing Covid incidence, and sadly death.

What are we to do? Sadly I do not know. It seems to me that Social Responsibility is sadly lacking in a significant minority - and this is enough to allow the virus to spread widely as we enter Winter.

Diana and I go back onto our Vit D supplements tomorrow after soaking up as much as we could naturally over the Summer/early Autumn.

We have a strategy of near-total risk aversion. Lots of D3 obviuosly. Also avoiding all risk of infection. Home grocery deliveries, online  shopping ,  no visits  or visitors etc. Haven't been to Tesco since Feb. Family visited once, in open air. Extreme? - not when I read of post-C19 brain complications.https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02599-5

Better safe than sorry.

Its not the cough that carries you off............

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.