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52 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

Peter, I assume you have seen this today.

1462F1E3-47AD-471F-AFC1-34BA70920779.png

Sue, Yes it is the work of that naysayer Prof Spector, Ive had a run in with his opinions before ** so I am deeply suspicious of his ambitions for the D3 part of the study. There is a strong sicntitfic reason why D3 supplemnts cannot be assessed in this survey: in summer months we make D3 from sunlight, so he has to use only winter data to see an effect  of supplements, Unless thay actually measure 25(OH)D3 and his app cannot do that.

** https://theconversation.com/vitamin-d-a-pseudo-vitamin-for-a-pseudo-disease-101907#comment_1741670

Peter

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4 hours ago, foster461 said:

The hypercalcaemia risk is a myth, based upon 1930s doses of CLO when D3 could not be measured, There is a risk in very young children of a familial form, but rare. Sarcoidosis pts need to be warned off D3 by their GPs, but are also rare.Kidney issuse might be a concern as D3 promotes calcium uptake for gut. But GPs can warn the rather small numbers of at-risk pts'

The falls data were based upon severely deficient immobile elderly who when being resotred to health with D3 supplements found thay could walk again., but had rotten bones. So they took up their bed and walked, fell over, and smashed bones.The correct way to look at those data is why were they allowed to become severly deficint in the first place.The blame is firmly upon ingnorance of most of the medical profession and its reliance upon appallingly bad advice from so called expert panels who treated D3 as if it were a drug: the less the better.

To quote a famous geneticist "Nothing in biology makes sense, excpet in the light of evolution"  D3 has a 500 miilion year history in regulating immunity, and has given us a physiological 25(OH)D3 of 100 to 150 nmol/L (= 40 to 60 ng/ml). The doses recommned by IoM and UK's NICE will deliver around 50 nmol/L, plus what we get from sun between April and Sept. These advisory panels seek to  defy evolution and physiology. They abuse science , and us.

There is excellent data realting severity of COVID to 25(OH)D3 and ample scicnce to be certian that relatinship is very likely causal. To my mind the propoents of 400 and 800IU pd are promoting a dangerously deficient regime. The US Inst Endocrinilogy  is not quoted but regards 75 nmol.L as adequate. Life-long D3 clinicina researchers such as Prof Holick carry more weight with me. He aims personally for 25(OH)D3 of 125 nmol/L. He discovered the active form of D3: 1,25(OH)2 D3. He supports the Inst Endoc advice.

I take 5000 IU pd and have noticed several improvrments. No winter colds, no  flu. Chronic rhinitis gone, after decades. Poor dental hygiene despite brushing and hygienist twice a year and bleeding gums - gone. I have not needed any dental attention for  three years. Mood, and memory greatly improved. All the above conditions are known actions of D3.  And the above impairments to health all are prominent in UK populaiton that has a mean 25(OH)D3 of just below 50 nmol/L.  Running with D3 below physiological for most of my life is the worst mistake I ever made healthwise. My weak, faltering ,shaking right hand can likely be blamed in part on lifelong low D3.  I now measure at 150 nmol/L at end winter and will be a bit higher now form the odd sunny day.

I sense there has been a Nudge campaign by UK govt to try to head off movements promoting the science of D3 for COVID.CNN have picked up on that, maybe by design by UK govt. So why the adherence to a decade-old decision by NICE?  It may be that ministers have simply trusted the advice from their own experts ( NICE, SACN) without looking deeper. And NICE are hardly going to roll over and say " maybe we are wrong", or " our advice is ten years old, has not been updated and is now out of date". Instead they provide the nudges for ministers. That will take time to overturn and meanwhile people are dying unecessariy in large numbers.  The Philippines data point to a 19-fold reduction in severity from 25(OH)D3 above 75 nmol/L. D3's effect on COVID is far from trivial.  But scientific understanding will always win through over establishment dogma. Eventually.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Interesting experiment University College London

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/virus-dna-spread-through-a-hospital-ward-within-10-hours-335833

Certainly a message in here for our personal hygiene  if we visit a hospital, or visit elderly relatives.

Alan

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38 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

Interesting experiment University College London

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/virus-dna-spread-through-a-hospital-ward-within-10-hours-335833

Certainly a message in here for our personal hygiene  if we visit a hospital, or visit elderly relatives.

Alan

Alarmingly fast spread in a supposed controlled location. However they used DNA  and the PCR technique used to detect it is exquisitely sensitive. So whether the quantity spread was enough to be contageous is open question. Corona viruses contain RNA and that will be more labile than DNA.  Even so, a COVID ward is clearly somewhere to avoid except in extremis. If I were admitted I think I would tell nearest and dearest not to visit. Period. Peter

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My son and I volunteered for UK Bio Bank Research into Cov19 as they wanted people related to each other ie mother and son/ father and son etc
my son has been accepted for the research but I have not heard anything yet.

see attached for some details.

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97C5B70C-4C58-4BD5-8275-F5E096241A8A.jpeg

318745CD-42B6-4F8F-81C7-212AB210D75F.jpeg

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On 6/11/2020 at 5:07 PM, barkerwilliams said:

Tks Alan, looks like the message is not going to be put back in the bottle despite PHE best efforts.

This Indian paper cover much of the science and doses we have discussed on here over the past three months:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Suresh_Sharma42/publication/341752269_Vitamin_D_A_cheap_yet_effective_bullet_against_coronavirus_disease-19_-_Are_we_convinced_yet/links/5eda7b2692851c9c5e81e390/Vitamin-D-A-cheap-yet-effective-bullet-against-coronavirus-disease-19-Are-we-convinced-yet.pdf

Every time I hear a Minister citing their "world-beating science " I cringe. India, Philippines, Belgium, Switzerland, Louisiana have all collecte 25(OH) measurments and published them while UK dithers and.....to be frank lets people die.

Pulse magazine for doctors recently published a COVID-risk score card ofr BAME doctors that included serum 25(OH)D3 < 30 nmol/L. Now look at Philippines and Indonesia published data on death rates for hospitalised COVID+ve pts: level below 75 nmol/L raises risk of death greatly: below

 

Pulse's 30 nmol/L  is 12 ng/ml on that graph: 100% died.  And these are Asian and African doctors who are being so terrible badly advised by a body they trust: NICE-SACN-PHE.

Peter

image.png

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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I don't suppose anyone's measured the 25(OH)D of mild and asymptomatic COVID infections yet.

Cheers, Richard

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On 6/14/2020 at 7:25 PM, Spit_2.5PI said:

I don't suppose anyone's measured the 25(OH)D of mild and asymptomatic COVID infections yet.

Cheers, Richard

Richard,  I have not seen any data on non-hospitalised pts. The data from Philippines and Indonesia was on 25(OH) upon admission and testing +ve for Covid. Theres a sharp change at 75 nmol/L  in fatality rate.Most of UK fall below 75, however the data were for Asians and caucasians are more responsive to 25(OH). We shall have to wait for UKs "world class" scientists to cath up with the developing nations.  Peter

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49 minutes ago, Bleednipple said:

Ah yes but I believe the main Vit D component in mushrooms is D2, not D3. I'm sure Peter will have something to say on that!

Nigel

+1 D2 not D3 not the same.

Mick Richards 

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D3 is what is made by sunlight (UVB) on skin. D3 supplements are chemically identical to solar D3.  D2 is slightly different but very similar chemically. Prof Holick in his book, now 10 years old, regards them as identical. But biochemical evidence now suggests D2 antagonises D3 binding to the VDR receptor, presumably negating some of the benefit of solar D3.  And human studies show D2 is only half as effective at raising 25(OH).https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-07-worldwide-health-authorities-urged-rethink.html

Lanolin from sheep wool is a feedstock for synthesis of D3, which may deter veggies.

Easier in my view to stay omnivorous, being a veggie needs extra study. Serum tests usually report both 25(OH)D3 and 25(OH)D2 separately.

Peter

 

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16 hours ago, iain said:

The Scottish govt is leading the way

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18521442.coronavirus-push-prescribe-vitamin-d-people-highest-risk-covid-bid-curb-second-wave-virus/

- the group I work with has a strong contingent north of the border and that article reflects their efforts.

Better late than never, but I fear  rear-guard  moves by NICE/SACN/PHE may still win, unless govts widen the "stakeholder" consultations.

Peter

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2 hours ago, iain said:

Get your team in as stakeholders Peter....it’s not an elite club on these things.....they let me in!

Iain

Iain,  I think in the present BAME crisis the team is the wrong colour, even tho we are on the side of BAMEs trying to help.

Peter

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1 hour ago, Nigel Triumph said:

Even the Daily Mail has picked up on vitamin D:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8432321/Government-orders-review-vitamin-D-role-Covid-19.html

It's mainstream now, Boris dare not ignore the Mail!

Nigel

Grauniad too. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/uk-ministers-order-urgent-vitamin-d-coronavirus-review

If Boris tries to ignore D3 it may even make PMQs.

Peter

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I note that president Macron was in London today. Did he have to drive a lorry over to avoid the mandatory quarantine regulations?

B)

 

New Vit D Video Dr John Campbell today

 

Edited by barkerwilliams
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On 6/9/2020 at 3:41 PM, Peter Cobbold said:

T

I take 5000 IU pd and have noticed several improvrments. No winter colds, no  flu. Chronic rhinitis gone, after decades. Poor dental hygiene despite brushing and hygienist twice a year and bleeding gums - gone. I have not needed any dental attention for  three years.

Peter

Pete. thought I'd take you up on this.

The vit D might have an effect on your gums, if you were vit D deficient, but no effect whatsoever on the acretions on your teeth that the hygienist would attend to. Vit C and K important too. Capt Cook did his bit for scurvy in the RN with the vit c in sauerkraut he took on board.

Buying an electric toothbrush. (esp Philips type with the oscillating action) and a soft brush, so you brush the gums as well as the teeth, will let you look after your oral health and add to all your vit D gains. If you brush soon after eating, that will shift the plaque before it can be turned into an 'acretion'.

Edited by little jim
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