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Sounds pretty academic, just chose media outlets with proper track record instead of that pile of garbage. But most don't want to miss out on Adele's waistband so they happily do go for the garbage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice 

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HELP THE NHS ~ I've let my adjoining empty house (fully furnished) to four NHS nurses free of charge during this National Emergency. We have a very large General Hospital at the top of the r

Very very Harsh Geko. I see a man, in an unenviable position, doing his utmost to balance the impossible tasks of trying to control the spread of a new novel virus - for which there is no treatme

By the book...

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On 5/7/2020 at 8:53 AM, Peter Cobbold said:

DDDonald for POTUS again 

Most Americans are badly deficient in vitamin D3, raising their risk of severe COVID, due to inadequately primed innate immunity. If America-wide supplementation with 2000 to 4000 IU per day were introduced by POTUS to bring D3 to a physiological level, there is an excellent probability that USA could exit COVID without a terrible death toll. And in time for the elections. Unlike bleach, D3 could Make America Healthy Again. D3 deficiency is rampant in UK but with no signs of any action by SAGE. We should all watch Trump taking the D3 route to re-election with interest.

 

 

 

I went grocery shopping today. Our local Costco always features some product or other as you enter the store and today the entire wall was stacked floor to ceiling with bottles of Vit D3 capsules, 2000IU.

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http://www.drdavidgrimes.com/2020/05/covid-19-vitamin-d-and-uk-government.html

It is rare that a senior clinician speaks their mind with such candour. And I think he hits the reason for Boris not adopting D3 - supply. By now SAGE can hardly have failed to be aware of D3 for COVID, research papers are appearing almost daily. Lets hope a few tons are being bought in by NHS. Fingers crossed.

Peter

 

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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3 minutes ago, foster461 said:

I went grocery shopping today. Our local Costco always features some product or other as you enter the store and today the entire wall was stacked floor to ceiling with bottles of Vit D3 capsules, 2000IU.

Excellent the word is getting out. My colleagues will be delighted.

In UK Costco limits that size to 2 bottles per member

Peter

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The daily Government Coronavirus press conferences with a cabinet minister and one or two medical/epidemiological luminaries are something of a bore with predictable and inadequately or disingenuously answered questions. I have drawn up a list of favoured clichés :- 'ramp up', 'wood for the trees', 'at pace', 'follow the science', and 'going forward'  and derive innocent amusement by ticking each one off every time it is used. The exercise reminds me of a customer I used to visit back in the 70s who peppered his conversation interminably  with the phrase 'like you know'. I was fascinated and  so intent on keeping track of his usage of the phrase that I found myself missing the import of what he had to say!

Tim

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Road to Rio

BobHope, Bing Crosby, Dorothy Lamour.

One sentence Said at the right time it gets their Morrocan band through Brazilian immigration pretending to be American.

You’re in the groove Jackson !

You’re telling me !

This is murder !

Mick Richards

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The Inquiry on Radio 4 this afternoon was, during the Covid-19 crisis, "Why are so many ethnic minorities dying in the UK and US?" and the last 5 or 10 minutes of the programme covered Vitamin D. All a bit vague but better than nothing.

Cheers, Richard

PS: First broadcast on the World Service on Wednesday 6th May.

Edited by Spit_2.5PI
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He would be one who hasn't been invited to join SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group on the Emergency).

Science is as full of politicking, nitpicking and jealousy as any soap opera/ Parliament

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15 hours ago, foster461 said:

I thought this article on bbc.com did a reasonable job of answering the question https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52371688

 

There is a big problem with that. PHE advise a D3 dose that will get a population mean to 50 nmol/L (=20ng.ml) which several studies (Philippines, Indonesia etc) have now shown is not enough to slash the risk of severe COVID or worse. Also PHE advice dates back a decade and does not embrace the lower response of black and asian races to D3 compared with caucasians:  https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1483/rr-2

PHE do sneakily say 4000 IU pd is safe, without actually advising it. Its what I take, knowing I g et to about 150 nmol/L, well away from the danger zone.

Peter

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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15 hours ago, Spit_2.5PI said:

The Inquiry on Radio 4 this afternoon was, during the Covid-19 crisis, "Why are so many ethnic minorities dying in the UK and US?" and the last 5 or 10 minutes of the programme covered Vitamin D. All a bit vague but better than nothing.

Cheers, Richard

PS: First broadcast on the World Service on Wednesday 6th May.

Tks Richard, not radio persom myself, so it is good to know D3 is being talked abour re BAME deaths.

Peter

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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

He would be one who hasn't been invited to join SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group on the Emergency).

Science is as full of politicking, nitpicking and jealousy as any soap opera/ Parliament

Beautifully summarised 

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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

He would be one who hasn't been invited to join SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group on the Emergency).

Science is as full of politicking, nitpicking and jealousy as any soap opera/ Parliament

Yes science is as cut and thrust as any human interaction. However in the longer term what adds to knowledge rises to the surface and the mere sabre ratlers get forgotten.

SAGE has a problem in that it is too narrow- all epidemiologists and behaviourists, and it works behind closed doors. Science does not progress like that, there must always be room for dissenting, alternative evidence and lateral thinking.  D3 is being ignored because SAGE's organisation is not open to scientifc debate ro scrutiny. Eventually D3 will coem to the rescue but that will likely be detemined by sometihng as mundane as a SAGE member listening to R4 or reading a journalsist peice. We have been trying ot access SAGE for over two months with an ever expanding bodyof evidence. No joy, Civiln Service secrecy prevails, killing any possibility of SAGE following science beyond thier narrow specialties. " Science led " is  a world apart from  "led by a few scientists" and sad to say the latter are in control.

Peter

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2 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

There is a big problem with that. PHE advise a D3 dose that will get a population mean to 50 nmol/L (=20ng.ml) which several studies (Philippines, Indonesia etc) have now shown is not enough to slash the risk of severe COVID or worse. Also PHE advice dates back a decade and does not embrace the lower response of black and asian races to D3 compared with caucasians:  https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1483/rr-2

PHE do sneakily say 4000 IU pd is safe, without actually advising it. Its what I take, knowing I g et to about 150 nmol/L, well away from the danger zone.

Peter

 

But it was an article building awareness about D3 and covid19 by the BBC.

 

Regarding dosage they said:

Should I take lots of it?

No. Although vitamin D supplements are very safe, taking more than the recommended amount every day can be dangerous in the long run.

If you choose to take vitamin D supplements:

Children aged 1-10 should not have more than 50 micrograms a day

Infants (under 12 months) should not have more than 25 micrograms a day

Adults should not have more than 100 micrograms a day and if they are going to take supplements the recommended amount is 10 micrograms a day

 

or in English, safely take up to 4000 IU a day, the current recommended supplement for adults in the UK is 400 IU a day. Is that not a fact ?

Stan

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3 minutes ago, foster461 said:

 

or in English, safely take up to 4000 IU a day, the current recommended supplement for adults in the UK is 400 IU a day. Is that not a fact ?

Stan

 

the bit people may not grasp immediately is how much they may be getting from their regular diet/internally-generated sources, which could be a lot (unlikely) or a little (more likely)

Frankly though, imo it really doesn’t need any more commentary or complication than your summary above.

...... Andy 

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8 hours ago, PaulAnderson said:

Heard a scientist on TV last week saying ‘follow the science’ is nonsense and can’t be done.  Can’t recall his full reasoning but it’s politicians getting it wrong again.  

Paul

 

7 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

He would be one who hasn't been invited to join SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group on the Emergency).

Science is as full of politicking, nitpicking and jealousy as any soap opera/ Parliament

 

No problem with these comments, I just feel that 'Following the Science' is fine, if it is tempered with a little common sense.

 

Most science results in statements that are littered with 'maybes', because, until the science is tested, it remains unproven

Unthinking, literal adherence to science, without some common sense can be great, but, it could be disastrous.

Nothing is achieved without checks and balances

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The problem with just following the science is that we would all stay home until there was a proven, safe vaccine in sufficient quantities to treat everyone or a prophylactic that would stop the disease dead in its tracks if you got infected. That could take anything from 18 months to never. So we were left with the temporary stay home orders to keep the hospitals from initially getting overwhelmed. Now that there is an ICU room and ventilator for you, you can go back to work and hope that the death rate does not get politically unacceptable. As ICU techniques and treatments continue to improve we may see that the infection rate goes up but the death rate goes up at a lower rate, staying under the radar.

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7 hours ago, AndyR100 said:

 

the bit people may not grasp immediately is how much they may be getting from their regular diet/internally-generated sources, which could be a lot (unlikely) or a little (more likely)

Frankly though, imo it really doesn’t need any more commentary or complication than your summary above.

...... Andy 

Typical brit diet delivers 170 IU pd

12 oz of wild salmon (not farmed ) would give 2000

a multivit 400

15 min in sun, around midday April to Sept, full body area, 10,000 to 20,000 IU

ca 2000 to 4000 IU pd is needed to get to physiological hormone level.

In UK no foodstuff is D3-enriched  excpet for Kellogs cornflakes.

Getting the correct blood level of D3 is, quite apart from covid, the single most valuable , most importnat contribution any individaul can amke to their health,life-long. D3 protects against many cancers, diabetes ( both types), hypertension, MS, auto-immune disease, neurodegenration, dementia, bone health, depression  etc.  The list is very long indeed. Deficiency is rife globally  and is "silemt" -  we cant tell untilt hings go wrong and disease starts. But it is then too late to start with D3 : it is a defensive hormone , it prevennts disease, and is not a therapeutic.  

And it is unlikely your GP is  aware.

Peter

 

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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8 hours ago, foster461 said:

But it was an article building awareness about D3 and covid19 by the BBC.

 

Regarding dosage they said:

Should I take lots of it?

No. Although vitamin D supplements are very safe, taking more than the recommended amount every day can be dangerous in the long run.

If you choose to take vitamin D supplements:

Children aged 1-10 should not have more than 50 micrograms a day

Infants (under 12 months) should not have more than 25 micrograms a day

Adults should not have more than 100 micrograms a day and if they are going to take supplements the recommended amount is 10 micrograms a day

 

or in English, safely take up to 4000 IU a day, the current recommended supplement for adults in the UK is 400 IU a day. Is that not a fact ?

Stan

Stan,

In UK the medical profession follow NICE advice: 400 IU pd

PHE advises MAX 4000 IU pd as if that were dangerous. However they copied USA Inst Med who found no adverse effects of 40,000 IU pd. And then imposed a ten-fold reduction, for no justified reason,   So UK official advice is one hundreth of the dose at whcih no adverse efffect were found.

D3 poisoning is known, at around 1 million IUs pd when a USA dairy got muddled with his numbers when enriching bulk milk with concentrated D3. Three people died ( calcium dmaged kidneys) but most recovered.

The over-riding parameter that we should follow is our blood level of 25(OH)D3 whcih should be 100 to 150 nmol/L.  USA Inst Endoc get closest with 75 nmol'L but NICE advise 50 as beong adequate. They are wrong, 50 is a known risk in many studies.- including COVID as shown by recent data for Phillipines, Indonesia, Luoisiana, India, Belgium and Switzerland. All show that above 75 the infection is mild in the majority of pts, below 75 the severity and death rsik soars.

Followinf official UK advice from NICE ( 400 IU pd, as in amultivit) is dangerous. But most unenlightened GPs do that , asssuming NICE is correct. It is a disaster for our health.

I need to take 2000 IU pd to get to 100 nmol/L in winter. I take 4000 to get to 150. Some of the science behind that is reviewed here:

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/10/5/284

Peter

 

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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17 hours ago, Crawfie said:

Summary......

PMs message tonight

" clear as mud"

Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud !!

I think that is a bit harsh. The guy was in intensive care just a few weeks ago. I suspect he didn't quite get the words right about "going back to work tomorrow" - i.e. today. I suspect he meant/ or meant to say we would start the process of getting people in certain areas of the economy back to work today with more detail/guidance on that coming out today and in the next few days/weeks.

For weeks people, the media, businesses and opposition politicians have been asking for a road map to recover from lockdown. All have said trust us to use common sense and trust us to use our intelligence to do the right thing as we remobilise the economy - yet now as the first steps start to be discussed, all people can do is complain!

Watching the news programs this morning I was getting quite angry at many commentators and interviewee's comments. If those people put as much effort into thinking about how to do the right thing as they seem to be into finding fault - then we will be fine.

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Rod,

Yes, he's been ill, but do you  not expect the PM of the country to be fully functional, not missing on several cylinders? 

 If he can't say what he meant to say, then it's not him that should be saying it.

John

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