The Roman Event. Latest Update: 12 March 2020

[DavidBee]

 

Latest Update: 12 March 2020

This is an ongoing, developing, proposal. If you have already read it, and come back to it, you will find that, as well as new Forum contributions following it, there's now also a brief update, which you'll find an Update paragraph at the very end. This draft will accomodate your suggestions and improve accordingly. It's intended as a work-in-progress, not set in stone and open to all to make it their very own project. ■

DRAFT to visualize the idea
A modern event around the theme of tracing someone's footsteps? or, more appropriately, tracking old Roman roads in Britain in a TR.

This Proposal stemmed from an interesting thread, started by Andy303, inspired by Leonard Cottrell's book about Roman Britain which includes two photographs of that author's Triumph TR2, used as his transport while engaged in mapping the terrain.

   It is just an idea... no more than the beginnings of a proposal... and namely, tracking Leonard Cottrell's TR quest to track down Roman roads and write about his journey, later published in a book.

Green line marks the Fosse Way

    Undoubtedly, it would take a while to organize this properly and, in all honesty, it is the kind of initiative which would require us to put our heads together, to make it happen. From previous experience, you can do or achieve anything, provided there's enough enthusiasm and good will. The end purpose? Having a good time.

    The Leonard Cotterell angle is very flexible: in essence, ours would be a modern run down Roman roads. A Triumph TR Register Summer Event... Tracking and Mapping the Past... the outcome would be a cross-group initiative, making a map to go in to TRAction with an illustrated story, told by the participants.

    Which summer? The 2020 spring and summer driving seasons are upon us. This year, I suspect, and Mick Forey also thinks, would be too soon to organize, turning detailed preparation into a frantic, hectic, pressurized activity, when the whole thing wants to be fun, not a chore.

    Back to the idea. It involves keeping a photographic record and a diary of what happened along the way. A bit like Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, stories and more stories... Then participants write theirs up and we put together a single, final story. 

    Andy303's thread was an invitation to read Cottrell's book, but also hinted at a golden opportunity to get several birds with one stone.

    What about method? How do you carry out an initiative like this?

We need to liaise with Wayne Scott, who has a wealth of experience, whose advice and support could make a really big difference. With his help, we might find ways of producing snd attracting as a byproduct, a bit of external publicity, writing it up beforehand, as a two-part timeline, splitting the Event into a Before the Event and an After the Event. Substantial feature articles, covering the two stages of the event and well illustrated, with maps, diagrams, historic anecdotes, entertaining and surprising snippets, pull out quotes from Cottrell, anything we can cook up.

    it could fit into the Club events niche in the Events column of Practical Classics and other similar publications, sending the editors a "Press Pack" showing one or two action shots of TRs on country lanes, as a very well-prepared teaser, to create expectations.

    If we want to put together a solid project, of course it will require careful planning of routes, as well as some historic research to go into the Pack and in the article, there would be snippets, cutting in to the story. It would require a team effort approach to work. For my part, I am going to put in my time and commitment.
    If I remember what magazine editors are like, they love this kind of thing. Chances are they'd send a photographer along and then turn it into a feature. We might pre-empt that and also have our own photographers and filmmakers to get good action shots and footage to edit into a short film, members who are willing to take it on for the trip, keeping an eye out for good shots and lively sequences.

    Two sound objectives: having fun, but also promoting the Register to new people, who get a taste of the (TR) "Action". A creative way in for new people to get a taste, understand what makes us tick (over) at 750rpm.

    Getting across the TR ethos, visible in the events where TRs still show up and compete, and still have a competitive edge.

    When is a TR not treated like a museum artefact? What is it like to drive a hand built, or often, rebuilt car like a TR (bearing in mind people who may be interested, but don't know from experience).

Just thoughts

In terms of organizing, all I can say that I am willing to do some of what it will take, yes and probably make mistakes, I only organized one TR event years and years ago for sidescreen TRs with John Lehane.

    All I know is that it takes careful preparation long before the planned date, to help make it happen. So it would be too much for one person to shoulder the whole event. And, if it is genuinely conceived as inclusive, it hinges on what people want. A jaunt in the countryside, only among locals of an area, or something more ambitious? You decide. And several of us can figure out the how and when.

My guess is that often fabulous events are organized, thoroughly enjoyable, but could be made more of. That is what requires additional coordination, the kind you need, for example, if you are making a documentary. Even 1960s fabulous cinéma vérité required a fair bit of planning ahead to make it work.

    Have you ever noticed how much classic car media draw on club good will and accumulated experience? THEY decide. THEY call the shots. THEY choose what to publish and how to present it. THEY see an opportunity and take it. Initiatives of this type fall in their lap, enthusiasts do all the work and then they write about it.

    But for this we would be aiming for something unusual: an event which has journalism (and Club PR) already built in from the start, and potentially having a greater reach than usual.

    The organizational and PR side, if it is any good, should be seamless, almost invisible, but very effective, if it is done carefully.

    The Proposal would be a story for the classic car motoring press, a lead-in, in jargon, and a kind of an appeal, a "call to the wild", a Romantic yearning for a distant past, half-remembered as better than it ever was, idealized 1950s, I suppose.

    If you look at some classic magazine features, you have the monographic ones about a rich collector and his, or her, "stable", or the trials and tribulations of a rebuild, or a deliberately set up story. For example, a recent story of going to the US to buy an unusual, fairly unpopular, British car and bring it back to Europe, with an entertaining account of all the mishaps along the way. These break the mold. Sometimes, they're too laddish, though.

    By comparison, the owner interviews, often sound stiff, stilted, even repetitive. And yet people and their experiences make for very interesing reads, if done well.

    The (online and print) Press Pack, which this text is gradually becoming, I guess, developing with your contributions, would be illustrated with ready-made posters, using one or both of the black and white photographs, plus Leonard Cotterell's book cover, an inspiring pullout quote of his words (if we can find some intriguing passage), and a few paragraphs to give an overall sense of it. I could work out the PR and design, possibly, and others could provide the content (put together a little historical research). Then we'd need volunteers for mapping the route, and for co-ordination. Volunteers to form a TR Media Team, to support Wayne, and follow his advice, working very much in consultation and collaboration.

 A before and after piece in TRAction and, if we boxed clever, some broader coverage through classic car magazines. Sometimes an idea flies, sometimes, for whatever reason, it doesn't. All you can do is give it your all. Then you've done your bit.

Latest Update: 12 March 2020

Where? So far, we have: "Hadrian's Wall from Coast to Coast". "The Fosse Way the TR Way".

◇ Great news This idea has been approved by Mick Forey, of the TR Registry Management Team today.

Timescale. Mick Forey also thinks tgat tgere is no need to rush. After all, so many events piling up as the spring and summer await us. So not 2020. He is wondering if there is a Cottrell date we could use to invent an anniversary. If not, we might think of other significant dates. Suggestions, anyone?

We need some help. The more, the merrier. In a sense, a project begins at the drawing table, so it has already started, now that it has been granted approval.

□ More good news Martin (Britishracingreen) is volunteering research and mapping, and Paul Hogan, who has already successfully organized a simlar event, has offered his help as organizer. 

Keep the ideas coming and gave your say.

As an old advert put it in the 1950s:

Last year, Hoges organized the Coast to Coast Run, a great success, and has been considering organizing another run, based loosely upon the theme of 'What have the Romans ever done for us?', a reference to the hilarious Monty Pythons' Life of Brian. What he had in mind was to travel a route that took in several Roman roads and the odd historical site. The starting point for this two- to three-day trip would be the Roman site at Wall, just outside Lichfield in Staffordshire.

     It is beginning to look like we're spoilt for choice, a really good thing. As I say, I see my role as a traffic warden, 1950s Lollipop Man.

     So anyone else who is keen to be involved is very welcome. As for me, I can do posters, figure out action shots, whatever, get involved in publicity, liaising with, and working closely with our expert, Wayne Scott, Editor of TR Action and Registry PR Officer.

Maybe there's scope for several editions? ■

Disclaimer

Just to be clear about this growing idea, the draft layout is nothing more than a visualization and now work in progress. We now have the go-ahead from the Register. This column will keep changing, to reflect your input. In the end, it will become your project, and mine too.

NB. My apologies for any errors in this text. They are mine. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by David Brancaleone
Typos and new content as and when

[John Morrison]

I'd do Hadrians wall from coast to coast, and with some very good roads.

John.

[DavidBee]

5 hours ago, John Morrison said:

I'd do Hadrians wall from coast to coast, and with some very good roads.

John.

WOW

[Bfg]

David. 

I see it as a brilliant idea and excellent initiative.  Although I'm not in a position to be part of it (neither this year or next) ..I just wanted to say well done and very good luck with it -  I really hope it happens and does so in a really enjoyable way. 

Pete.

[DavidBee]

1 hour ago, Bfg said:

David. 

I see it as a brilliant idea and excellent initiative.  Although I'm not in a position to be part of it (neither this year or next) ..I just wanted to say well done and very good luck with it -  I really hope it happens and does so in a really enjoyable way. 

Pete.

Pete, that is very generous of you to take the trouble to say so.

Actually, it is a concertina-idea. What is a concertina-idea, you may be wonpdering ask? An idea that is capable of expanding, growing, into a series of ideas, all sharing one and the same organizing principle, namely, a combination of FUN and... something hard to define...

A big event, what the ancients called impresa, constructive, but also something to brag about. "We did this".. "Oh really? I wish I'd known. That's amazing!..."

You reply with a question: "heroic?, possibly" "Well, that's a big word, Pete, but, yeah, why not, for a change or something less grand?" You cut in: "But why should it be?"

John's idea would eliminate a lot of research which a "find the hidden trail" approach would require, while still having huge potential and potentially dramatic shots...

The more people chip in, the better. Then it will turn into a group effort. I volunteer to be the traffic warden, even the designer of posters, leaflets, bits of copy-writing, I'd be very happy to do that.

 

[foster461]

There is a lot going on in your proposal David but I know that in the past there has been a lot of interest and support for driving events that have some historical theme. People can only park in a field and talk about piston slap for so long.

Stan

[DavidBee]

2 minutes ago, foster461 said:

There is a lot going on in your proposal David but I know that in the past there has been a lot of interest and support for driving events that have some historical theme. People can only park in a field and talk about piston slap for so long.

Stan

Other people, need to figure out how to tune Webers -- like me -- but also wouldn't mind doing something or suggesting an activity where we get together to do something else too, not better, not worse. Just different. The word TR in my home elicits a gentle, slightly condescending smile, if uttered only once. If repeated, the beginnings of a scowl, or the menace of a yawn.

[foster461]

The other thing is that events like this have broader appeal. My wife hates static car shows but gets a lot more enthusiastic if there is an element of exploration, sightseeing or shopping involved.

[DavidBee]

31 minutes ago, foster461 said:

The other thing is that events like this have broader appeal. My wife hates static car shows but gets a lot more enthusiastic if there is an element of exploration, sightseeing or shopping involved.

Agreed. I could spend hours listening and learning about all the automotive stuff I don't know. Bob has tried to explain the mod on his 3 as to why a rubber hose from SU to rocker cover should be a GOOD THING, but I still don't get it.

So, yes, for me personally, I also need to learn about these things and how to do stuff like tuning Webers (heeeelp!!!)

Edited March 10, 2020 by David Brancaleone

[foster461]

If you dont have a thread started on your Weber issues go ahead and start a new thread. There is quite a bit of Weber expertise here and we have not dug into that topic for a while.

Stan

[Mick Forey]

I think this is a great idea. The Leicestershire group often uses the Fosse Way as our preferred route to the South West from us, it is a great road to drive. This idea would appeal to those people who like a long challenge - who can do the lot, equally those who just want to do a stage or two.

Mick

[Lebro]

For those that may not be aware, The late Alec Pringle organised a series (3 I think) of "TRarchaeology" outings where a number of interested owners got together under the leadership of a "proper archaeologist" (who has been on TV, & also happens to own a TR3A) and got to see some really good ancient sites. 

This could be viewed as a continuation of that theme.  Do a search on TRarchaeology on this forum & you will get an idea of how much fun it was.

Bob.

[DavidBee]

2 hours ago, foster461 said:

If you dont have a thread started on your Weber issues go ahead and start a new thread. There is quite a bit of Weber expertise here and we have not dug into that topic for a while.

Stan

Thanks Stan. I shall bear that in mind and go and read those before I do. As yet, it is only my example of the kind of conversation people like me will need. I had SUs HS6s before. In respobse to piston slapping. All relevant to me was actually my "aside".

[DavidBee]

2 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

I think this is a great idea. The Leicestershire group often uses the Fosse Way as our preferred route to the South West from us, it is a great road to drive. This idea would appeal to those people who like a long challenge - who can do the lot, equally those who just want to do a stage or two.

Mick

Excellent suggestion, Mick! That way, it becomes all inclusive.

The "quest" side might appeal too, a task. It could consist in a group effort of mapping, ending up with a map and a diary-style set of photos, like Eli's very appealing Riders in the Storm, which has deservedly captured our imaginations.

And, similarly, along the same lines, a genuine photographic record of a shared experience. I always love to see photos of cars being used and cars as part of the lanscape or architecture.

You could have some people who act as event photographers, each one taking a section, or an aspect. Or bits of footage with recorded interviews to be edited into a short, maybe as a taster, for another future event?

As you can tell, more than one person.

Then non-artistic practicalities. Preferred dates. And so on. Taking care of bookings. Thinking up a workable system. All that.

Edited March 10, 2020 by David Brancaleone

[DavidBee]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

For those that may not be aware, The late Alec Pringle organised a series (3 I think) of "TRarchaeology" outings where a number of interested owners got together under the leadership of a "proper archaeologist" (who has been on TV, & also happens to own a TR3A) and got to see some really good ancient sites. 

This could be viewed as a continuation of that theme.  Do a search on TRarchaeology on this forum & you will get an idea of how much fun it was.

Bob.

On my way cycling home from work. But has to say thank you for this suggestion. Asap will look it up. Thanks to Pringle too, wherever he is TR-ing now...

[BritishRacingGreen]

David

I’m sure you’re aware that the Ordnance Survey did and I believe still do publish various maps of Roman Britain which might be a useful resource/starting point for discussion.

My two favourites, which have stood the test of time and have been on my bookshelf since my student days are the Ordnance Survey Maps

Of All Roman Britain and the second one is just of Hadrians Wall – from Bowness on Solway to Wallsend.

Copies of both maps regularly crop up in Antique Bookshops and are currently available from Amazon for a few pounds –

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P4H7HK?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006RSH9BC?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

If you need help let me know.

My credentials are I’ve had an interest in both TRs and in Roman History since my student days when in Newcastle I regularly explored Hadrian’s Wall. I recall Scott Dobson, the author of “Larn Yersel' Geordie’ also did a spoof booklet on the “Geordie Wall”.

Halcyon days.

Martin

[DavidBee]

5 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

David

I’m sure you’re aware that the Ordnance Survey did and I believe still do publish various maps of Roman Britain which might be a useful resource/starting point for discussion.

My two favourites, which have stood the test of time and have been on my bookshelf since my student days are the Ordnance Survey Maps

Of All Roman Britain and the second one is just of Hadrians Wall – from Bowness on Solway to Wallsend.

Copies of both maps regularly crop up in Antique Bookshops and are currently available from Amazon for a few pounds –

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P4H7HK?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006RSH9BC?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

If you need help let me know.

My credentials are I’ve had an interest in both TRs and in Roman History since my student days when in Newcastle I regularly explored Hadrian’s Wall. I recall Scott Dobson, the author of “Larn Yersel' Geordie’ also did a spoof booklet on the “Geordie Wall”.

Halcyon days.

Martin

 

Dear Martin,

I am volunteering myself in the areas I can be most helpful, because of my background. So PR, writing, design, NOT technical stuff -- I'm a dunce, ask Bob -- that kind of stuff. (Used to work in publishing, now an academic).

So, congratulations! Now we are a team of two. You are our TR Roman Event historian. The way I prefer to work, which seems most effective, is each Coordinator takes on a task and keeps the others informed. Where a decision is needed, just gets in touch, we take it, we move on. Until the whole job's done. You use your expertise. You are in charge of your bit. Same goes for other tasks we single out. Not pompous, straightfoward. Simple.

I am delighted you are interested. I once lived in Wales while my wife was teaching yoga in a tiny town called Llandeilo near Carmarthen

We had a resident archaelogist living nearby. On the culture week, he gave us a guided tour of a park Dwynever Park, where there were two Roman castra. Two very large Roman encampments under the meadows. An earlier one, from 60 AD or so, and a larger, later one. The area had become a small Romano-British town. With only words he made us "see" the lane leading into it, the shops and stalls, the busy crossroads, vendors, geese, children, carts and layabouts, as if it was right there.

I think the best way to do things is take a suggestion, go with it, and see where it leads, then peoduce something we can see, read, share and get feedback. The better researched it is, usually, the more convincing it becomes.

I hope what I say is taken in the right spirit. My main concern is us HAVING FUN. And cooking up ways to do that. Please feel free to say or reject anything. It is only my own point of view. I often find that other people come up with better ideas, if only I can listen. 

I have yet to check out Alec Pringle's three Events, as suggested by Bob. I'm sure we don't have to reinvent the wheel. LetS follow Picasso's method. He used to say: "I don't copy, I steal".

Any good ideas around, we steal immediately with zero compunction (but attribute them).

[Paul Hogan]

Hi David and all others.   You might not have noticed but  after the success of the Coast to Coast run I organised last year I did say I was thinking of doing another run based loosely upon the theme of 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' (A reference to Monty Python's' Life of Brian'  if you didn't get it).   The idea was to travel a route that took in several Roman roads and the odd historical site.  My starting point for this  two/three day trip was going to be the Roman site at WALL just outside Lichfield in Staffordshire.  I'd not heard of Leonard Cotterall's exploits before but if people would like do something like this then I am more than happy to help organise it. 

Regards, 

Hoges. 

[DavidBee]

 

 

Hello there, Hoges! There is something you ought to know immediately at seven o five this morning. I have only very recently re-joined the TR Register, after a quarter of a century! So I am, and was, blissfully ignorant about previous initiatives. Your contribution and experience is sorely needed and most welcome. This is just something I'd like us to do. I definitely think we should use the previous relevant events to make this one at least as good as they were and to learn from them will help us. This begs a question: is there any documentation? Photographs? Reports? On this Forum or one of the others? I can add these points elsewhere, to put these questions to everybody. The idea being, I can add the material to what we have so far. The Cotterell angle intrigued me because somehow, as I see it, it captures the imagination. Perhaps what I personally can try to contribute, doing my best, is a media angle. What I mean by that is, while promoting the event, also try to promote TRs within the Classic Car community of outsiders, for two reasons. Firstly, so that, as I mention elsewhere, the journalists who write for the magazines get wind of it and help promote it to a broader public and readership. Secondly, to attract other people, more young enthusiasts into the Register, not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with big ideas, in my opinion. Sometimes you can pull them off.

[Lebro]

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/62189-trchaeology-weekend/

Some TRachaeology history for you David.

Bob.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Lebro

[DavidBee]

4 minutes ago, Lebro said:

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/62189-trchaeology-weekend/

Some TRachaeology history for you David.

Bob.

 

Fantastic, Bob! A great help. I shall have a good look. Putting together an archive of material can be useful for several purposes. For how the story is presented, for example. Thanks so much. The more prep, the better. Do you know that anecdote about Maria Callas? I always tell my students. Her life was a disaster, a bloody mess, right up to the moment she went on stage and immediately after. But when she walked on, it was magic. Transcendence. Not just amazing talent, hard work, slog, never giving up. Some of them get it. But some don't like the sound of it at all.

[DavidBee]

On 3/10/2020 at 9:12 PM, BritishRacingGreen said:

David

I’m sure you’re aware that the Ordnance Survey did and I believe still do publish various maps of Roman Britain which might be a useful resource/starting point for discussion.

My two favourites, which have stood the test of time and have been on my bookshelf since my student days are the Ordnance Survey Maps

Of All Roman Britain and the second one is just of Hadrians Wall – from Bowness on Solway to Wallsend.

Copies of both maps regularly crop up in Antique Bookshops and are currently available from Amazon for a few pounds –

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P4H7HK?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006RSH9BC?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

If you need help let me know.

My credentials are I’ve had an interest in both TRs and in Roman History since my student days when in Newcastle I regularly explored Hadrian’s Wall. I recall Scott Dobson, the author of “Larn Yersel' Geordie’ also did a spoof booklet on the “Geordie Wall”.

Halcyon days.

Martin

 

Martin,

My specific suggestion is to see what the others are thinking and coordinate and research the mapping and the historical context. Have fun and then we can pop it into the main Proposal or you can add as part of ongoing thread. Up to you.

Best, David