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TR 2 re trim

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My next project is the full re trim of a TR 2 .

Any tips and advice very welcome on where to buy but mainly on the fitting. Especially how to fit the trim to the alli door capping and the exposed ends . My door cappings are the type with the 20mm [aprox] rubber top. 

ROY

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I used a Skinner kit. Overall pretty good but some details were disappointing. The carpet tunnel join was right on top of the universal access hole, the tonneau cover fit was poor. The top and side curtains I am yet to have done.

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Ah man I didn't want to here that Iam looking to buy a complete leather and carpet kit from them. I was looking to Skinners because they have the right shades of red I want for my 1955 tr3 which came from the factory in leather. Iam looking to send my curtains to TRF for restoring when I get that far along.

Edited by friarmike

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4 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I used a Skinner kit. Overall pretty good but some details were disappointing. The carpet tunnel join was right on top of the universal access hole, the tonneau cover fit was poor. The top and side curtains I am yet to have done.

Hi John,

Just a quick note to say that I received e mail and photos in early January with overall comments and feedback on your restoration, thank you.

I replied to this email on the 26th January, with comments and further questions on issues you encountered etc, but to date I have not received a reply. I wanted to check that you had received this ok, as your feedback on these matters is much appreciated.

To summarise, in case you had not received my e mail - and clarify for others members reading these posts...

Re: Tonneau Cover - I would be very interested to talk with you further about this part, as this seems to be the main area of issue for you. If you can advise based on the comments made in my email., that would be super. The fitment around the Rear Wheelarch and the Steering Wheel Pocket are of particular interest to me as it certainly looks from your photos as though this needs addressing at our end.

With regards to the length of the Tonneau - we supplied the "Long" style tonneau as per the very early TR2 models. Our notes tell us that this went up to TS5,255, and your chassis number is TS-3,7## - so within the range for the rare "long" style. This is all dictated by the positions of the fixing holes on the front edge - the early cars - these were in line with the rear view mirror on the actual metalwork of the Dash Top. Whereas the majority of the TR2 and TR3/3A models - these fixings were in the actual Dash Top Scuttle Capping. 

It appears from your photos you sent, that the fixing positions on your car match that of the later version, which does not follow suit with the notes we have about the chassis number range. Something has gone amiss here; could be the TR production line, could be changes over the years, who knows. Either way, we can chalk this up to a simple case of miscommunications. I am thankful to hear that you had a local trimmer able to resolve this for you.

Re: Carpet (Tunnel) - this was not mentioned in your email in January, so some feedback on this would be great. Note that our carpet patterns for this are based on originals for the TR2 and TR3 models (not TR3A which differ); and we have used the same templates to good effect for 4 decades now. Although we are confident of a good fit with our patterns, and we have many satisfied customers to say the same; we are always open to constructive feedback and improvements to our patterns.

Re: Cappings - I have also suggested, in my e mail, ways in which you can improve the fitment of your cappings that your trimmer has done. We supply over-sized, pre-skived leather material for these areas, for fitment on the cappings. The skiving of the material is to help improve the finished results, and is something that not many other companies offer as standard; however, when it comes to fitment process - we are at the mercy of the people fitting it to get the best results. We can advise on the best methods, but after that it is out of our hands.

Overall Finish -

I believe that overall you were very happy with the finished results of the car, which is the key - and I hope that others reading this can focus on the positives of your restoration - versus a couple of areas that required attention. Unfortunately, often it is these minor negative points that other prospective clients focus on which I feel can be misleading to my company's reputation as a whole. 

Sometimes it is hard for me to read and stomach posts from our clients who breeze over 90% of a kit working out very well - and focus on 10% where they encountered issues, some of which may not even be down to the manufactured parts supplied.

We have been the leading supplier for interior trim for TR2 to TR6 models for 40 years now, as well as other British marques. We pride ourselves on being extremely reactive to issues; regardless of whether this is related to internal manufacturing or improvements to originality. These were hand built cars with notoriously inconsistent production lines. We make the best fitting kits on the market; can we guarantee the fit of every single part? Absolutely not - no one ever can - but the combination of one of our kits and a skilled, patient and competent fitter will always yield the best results - as I am sure that you can attest to John.

I felt I should mention these points as potential clients such as @friarmike may be slightly misled by Johns comments. As far as I am aware, the majority of Johns car kit turned out extremely favourably, and it was only a couple of small areas that needed to be tinkered with.

I look forward to hearing from you John with regards to the comments in my email from January, so we can look to make any changes required.

 

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On 3/10/2020 at 11:54 PM, JSkinner said:

Hi John,

Just a quick note to say that I received e mail and photos in early January with overall comments and feedback on your restoration, thank you.

I replied to this email on the 26th January, with comments and further questions on issues you encountered etc, but to date I have not received a reply. I wanted to check that you had received this ok, as your feedback on these matters is much appreciated.

To summarise, in case you had not received my e mail - and clarify for others members reading these posts...

Re: Tonneau Cover - I would be very interested to talk with you further about this part, as this seems to be the main area of issue for you. If you can advise based on the comments made in my email., that would be super. The fitment around the Rear Wheelarch and the Steering Wheel Pocket are of particular interest to me as it certainly looks from your photos as though this needs addressing at our end.

With regards to the length of the Tonneau - we supplied the "Long" style tonneau as per the very early TR2 models. Our notes tell us that this went up to TS5,255, and your chassis number is TS-3,7## - so within the range for the rare "long" style. This is all dictated by the positions of the fixing holes on the front edge - the early cars - these were in line with the rear view mirror on the actual metalwork of the Dash Top. Whereas the majority of the TR2 and TR3/3A models - these fixings were in the actual Dash Top Scuttle Capping. 

It appears from your photos you sent, that the fixing positions on your car match that of the later version, which does not follow suit with the notes we have about the chassis number range. Something has gone amiss here; could be the TR production line, could be changes over the years, who knows. Either way, we can chalk this up to a simple case of miscommunications. I am thankful to hear that you had a local trimmer able to resolve this for you.

Re: Carpet (Tunnel) - this was not mentioned in your email in January, so some feedback on this would be great. Note that our carpet patterns for this are based on originals for the TR2 and TR3 models (not TR3A which differ); and we have used the same templates to good effect for 4 decades now. Although we are confident of a good fit with our patterns, and we have many satisfied customers to say the same; we are always open to constructive feedback and improvements to our patterns.

Re: Cappings - I have also suggested, in my e mail, ways in which you can improve the fitment of your cappings that your trimmer has done. We supply over-sized, pre-skived leather material for these areas, for fitment on the cappings. The skiving of the material is to help improve the finished results, and is something that not many other companies offer as standard; however, when it comes to fitment process - we are at the mercy of the people fitting it to get the best results. We can advise on the best methods, but after that it is out of our hands.

Overall Finish -

I believe that overall you were very happy with the finished results of the car, which is the key - and I hope that others reading this can focus on the positives of your restoration - versus a couple of areas that required attention. Unfortunately, often it is these minor negative points that other prospective clients focus on which I feel can be misleading to my company's reputation as a whole. 

Sometimes it is hard for me to read and stomach posts from our clients who breeze over 90% of a kit working out very well - and focus on 10% where they encountered issues, some of which may not even be down to the manufactured parts supplied.

We have been the leading supplier for interior trim for TR2 to TR6 models for 40 years now, as well as other British marques. We pride ourselves on being extremely reactive to issues; regardless of whether this is related to internal manufacturing or improvements to originality. These were hand built cars with notoriously inconsistent production lines. We make the best fitting kits on the market; can we guarantee the fit of every single part? Absolutely not - no one ever can - but the combination of one of our kits and a skilled, patient and competent fitter will always yield the best results - as I am sure that you can attest to John.

I felt I should mention these points as potential clients such as @friarmike may be slightly misled by Johns comments. As far as I am aware, the majority of Johns car kit turned out extremely favourably, and it was only a couple of small areas that needed to be tinkered with.

I look forward to hearing from you John with regards to the comments in my email from January, so we can look to make any changes required.

 

Hi Jonathon. Yes your kit fitted very well indeed and I am delighted with how the car turned out.

I would add that I have very very high standards for this very special long door TR2, me being the 3rd owner and it having very possibly an original 70,000 miles. Most owners wouldn't be at all concerned by the relatively minor shortcomings in the Skinner kit.

The trimmer who installed my kit is a very experienced operator specialising in classics but his installation of the capping behind the door could have been better thought out. The tunnel carpet was a difficult one as the join was directly over the universal access hole. He did his best.

With respect to the tonneau. I have two TR2s, TS3732 and TS 5038. There is no evidence of there being holes for the pegs anywhere else on the combing on either car. The short tonneau is definitely the right one for both my cars.

I'll send you more photos of the tonneau by email.

I would recommend Jonathon's kits to anyone wanting very high quality Concours standard upholstery. I don't believe there is a better kit available. 

I would also recommend that owners keep a close eye on how it is fitted and that they be consulted on any issues the trimmer finds, before that item is installed.

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Hi John,

Thank your for your update on this topic.

I have just replied to your private message.

I shall wait to hear from you about a couple of matters in your message, and we can look to collaborate to sort and verify a few things for both your restoration and our improvement of patterns.

For any others reading this topic, some additional information that may be of interest prompted by Johns recent feedback...

Re: Tonneau - Long versus Short

There is 100% two different versions. As mentioned above, this is all based on the placement of the fixings @ the front of the car...see the attached photo where you can see the peg fixings in different places between the two models. This is taken from Bill Piggotts book. I have also attached some photos that I had on file from other customers in the past. We have a couple of historic notes on your system about the chassis number change over, but I will know start a bit more research into the this and see what I find...if there is one thing I have learnt over the years - you can never claim to know everything about these cars, as they were a law unto themselves!! Watch this space!!

In me recent searches of our archives, prompt by your feedback, I have also stumbled across the following information that may be of interest for you and others out there...I am unsure of the source of this stated information, so we would always recommend taking things with a "pinch of salt"...

273762559_WorkManual-WM-Triumph-TR2-TR3A-TonneauCover-PositionofFixings.thumb.png.4385c26a2dc163529c725783491f55ea.png

Either way, your feedback is much appreciated; it is through constructive feedback and looking into things further that we can continually improve our products in the quest for the never attainable "perfection"!! A gift and a curse!

9 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I would also recommend that owners keep a close eye on how it is fitted and that they be consulted on any issues the trimmer finds, before that item is installed.

- With regards to this - I could not agree more with this statement. I would really like to explain further to all those who may read this post, as this is a topic that I really thinks needs clarifying more:

We always encourage both our customers and professional trimmers to contact us if they are unsure. Sending a variety of photos to explain the "head scratcher" is always recommended. I spend a great deal of my time helping and assisting with the fitment of our parts, and "putting the puzzle" together, so to speak. It is all part of the service. Changes made to any of our parts before first consulting us, can also invalidate the manufacturer warranty; so please keep this in mind. 

Trimmers, no matter how experienced, sometimes do not necessarily  know the in-depth idiosyncrasies of these cars quite like we do. They may well have spent decades restoring all number of cars to a very high standard; and this can lead to fantastic restorations, however, this does not mean they know absolutely everything  when it comes to specific cars...The same should be said for you guys on the forum, and fellow enthusiasts the world over. Yes, you have this forum, and many others, and yes you meet up at events and talk and you have a fantastic resource at your finger tips, so there is no doubting your knowledge of these things (side note: be careful not to believe everything your hear/read though!!)...However...

...as a company, we have been the epicentre of interior trim and fitment related "feedback" (both both constructive and some not so much ;)) for 4 decades. All the comments that have ever been written on an online forum, or spoken at a show or event about interior trim and the fitment process - have most likely been said to our company in one way or another.

We are not novices, we know these parts inside out; from the raw materials side of things to the end results and fitment. Sure, mistakes can happen, but these are rare. John Skinner Ltd have literally spent 40 years making the same parts over and over and over again. We make kits for TRs day-in day-out; the same can be said for E Types, Austin Healey BJ8s and MGA Roadsters. These are the cars, that on any given day, we will be prepping or making parts for. These do not come along once every couple of years - we literally make 100s of kits a year for certain cars (E Types/BJ8s/TR3As/TR6s) and ship them all over the world. We win Concours Awards year on year, all over the world - from local village shows to national events. In this day and age, using the technology we use in our factory - it would be extremely hard for us to transcend from an award winning concours car one week to "this item is a terrible fit" the next. We have digital cutters that cut out both our hard and soft materials; but we also still have all of our old cardboard templates with years of different notes on to spot check things.

For decades we have dealt with and been reactive to feedback from our customers and trimmers. Long before internet forums, we were working with enthusiasts and professional trimmers alike to improve our patterns and offer the best kits. We have come across most problems that the average fitter will encounter - and honestly, 9 times out of 10 - there is normally a very obvious and easy resolution to the confusion - they just need to be made aware of it; and this is where our knowledge as company comes in useful. 

So "YES" - always contact us before. Regardless of how insistent your trimmer may be of a perceived problem - just get them to check with us first. Between the two of us, we can resolve any confusions or problems about these parts. 

I hope people find this post useful. Although I do browse over these forums from time to time to keep my finger on the pulse, so to speak - I do not like to get overly involved unless I feel something requires my attention.

Over and out from a rainy Cheltenham! 

Kind regards,

Jonathon Skinner

John Skinner (Manufacturing) Ltd

Unit 8 Manchester Park

Tewkesbury Road

Cheltenham

Gloucestershire

GL51 9EJ

Tel: +44 (0) 1242 230995

E Mail: sales@john-skinner.co.uk

Web: www.john-skinner.co.uk

Work Manual - WM - TR2 - Long Style Tonneau Fixings.JPG

Work Manual - WM - Triumph TR2 - Long Style Tonneau Fixings.jpeg

IMG_8003 (1).jpg

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For the first "pinch of salt" on the attached article regarding Tenax post placement, mine is TS 1911 LO and the forward Tenax posts are on the scuttle rather than on the capping rail, requiring the longer tonneau.  So the cutoff number of TS 1871 is an error.

Cheers

Dan

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On 3/10/2020 at 11:54 PM, JSkinner said:

Hi John,

Just a quick note to say that I received e mail and photos in early January with overall comments and feedback on your restoration, thank you.

I replied to this email on the 26th January, with comments and further questions on issues you encountered etc, but to date I have not received a reply. I wanted to check that you had received this ok, as your feedback on these matters is much appreciated.

To summarise, in case you had not received my e mail - and clarify for others members reading these posts...

Re: Tonneau Cover - I would be very interested to talk with you further about this part, as this seems to be the main area of issue for you. If you can advise based on the comments made in my email., that would be super. The fitment around the Rear Wheelarch and the Steering Wheel Pocket are of particular interest to me as it certainly looks from your photos as though this needs addressing at our end.

With regards to the length of the Tonneau - we supplied the "Long" style tonneau as per the very early TR2 models. Our notes tell us that this went up to TS5,255, and your chassis number is TS-3,7## - so within the range for the rare "long" style. This is all dictated by the positions of the fixing holes on the front edge - the early cars - these were in line with the rear view mirror on the actual metalwork of the Dash Top. Whereas the majority of the TR2 and TR3/3A models - these fixings were in the actual Dash Top Scuttle Capping. 

It appears from your photos you sent, that the fixing positions on your car match that of the later version, which does not follow suit with the notes we have about the chassis number range. Something has gone amiss here; could be the TR production line, could be changes over the years, who knows. Either way, we can chalk this up to a simple case of miscommunications. I am thankful to hear that you had a local trimmer able to resolve this for you.

Re: Carpet (Tunnel) - this was not mentioned in your email in January, so some feedback on this would be great. Note that our carpet patterns for this are based on originals for the TR2 and TR3 models (not TR3A which differ); and we have used the same templates to good effect for 4 decades now. Although we are confident of a good fit with our patterns, and we have many satisfied customers to say the same; we are always open to constructive feedback and improvements to our patterns.

Re: Cappings - I have also suggested, in my e mail, ways in which you can improve the fitment of your cappings that your trimmer has done. We supply over-sized, pre-skived leather material for these areas, for fitment on the cappings. The skiving of the material is to help improve the finished results, and is something that not many other companies offer as standard; however, when it comes to fitment process - we are at the mercy of the people fitting it to get the best results. We can advise on the best methods, but after that it is out of our hands.

Overall Finish -

I believe that overall you were very happy with the finished results of the car, which is the key - and I hope that others reading this can focus on the positives of your restoration - versus a couple of areas that required attention. Unfortunately, often it is these minor negative points that other prospective clients focus on which I feel can be misleading to my company's reputation as a whole. 

Sometimes it is hard for me to read and stomach posts from our clients who breeze over 90% of a kit working out very well - and focus on 10% where they encountered issues, some of which may not even be down to the manufactured parts supplied.

We have been the leading supplier for interior trim for TR2 to TR6 models for 40 years now, as well as other British marques. We pride ourselves on being extremely reactive to issues; regardless of whether this is related to internal manufacturing or improvements to originality. These were hand built cars with notoriously inconsistent production lines. We make the best fitting kits on the market; can we guarantee the fit of every single part? Absolutely not - no one ever can - but the combination of one of our kits and a skilled, patient and competent fitter will always yield the best results - as I am sure that you can attest to John.

I felt I should mention these points as potential clients such as @friarmike may be slightly misled by Johns comments. As far as I am aware, the majority of Johns car kit turned out extremely favourably, and it was only a couple of small areas that needed to be tinkered with.

I look forward to hearing from you John with regards to the comments in my email from January, so we can look to make any changes required.

 

Hi Jonathon. Yes your kit fitted very well indeed and I am delighted with how the car turned out.

I would add that I have very very high standards for this very special long door TR2, me being the 3rd owner and it having very possibly an original 70,000 miles. Most owners wouldn't be at all concerned by the relatively minor shortcomings in the Skinner kit.

The trimmer who installed my kit is a very experienced operator specialising in classics but his installation of the capping behind the door could have been better thought out. The tunnel carpet was a difficult one as the join was directly over the universal access hole. He did his best.

With respect to the tonneau. I have two TR2s, TS3732 and TS 5038. There is no evidence of there being holes for the pegs anywhere else on the combing on either car. The short tonneau is definitely the right one for both my cars.

I'll send you more photos of the tonneau by email.

I would recommend Jonathon's kits to anyone wanting very high quality Concours standard upholstery. I don't believe there is a better kit available. 

I would also recommend that owners keep a close eye on how it is fitted and that they be consulted on any issues the trimmer finds, before that item is installed.

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I would also like to add that Jonathon has been absolutely fantastic in his dealings with me since I first approached him for the upholstery for my restoration project over two years ago. It is his business and he has dealt with me personally on each and every occasion.

We spent literally months getting the colours and materials right, not something I imagine other suppliers would do. I have the cars original upholstery and sent sections to him and he sent many samples to me before we got the most accurate finish.

Unfortunately I had my laptop stolen in a burglary and missed some of Jonathon's email communications. He has not given up on getting these final details right and continues to work hard to get the standard of finish we both want.

 

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thanks for the reply jskinner  the sigh of good company to reply in such a way. Ya I have you ear marked for my car you offer more then anybody else for what my car needs and getting the right shades is a big thing for me I know you are at a higher price point but you get what you pay for at least most of the time. Mike   

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On 3/16/2020 at 2:09 AM, 2long said:

For the first "pinch of salt" on the attached article regarding Tenax post placement, mine is TS 1911 LO and the forward Tenax posts are on the scuttle rather than on the capping rail, requiring the longer tonneau.  So the cutoff number of TS 1871 is an error.

Cheers

Dan

Thanks for the information Dan - I will add this to our records.

The chassis number we have always traditionally gone by for this Tonneau change is "TS5,255,". It is only this random screen shot I found on our system that references the TS-1871 - and I have no idea where this came from!! Just goes to show the misinformation that is out there!

Thanks again all, and keep safe during this troubling time.

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