Jump to content
john.r.davies

PI Fuel pump failure

Recommended Posts

It wasn't clear, Aston, from the pic that the rubber wasn't 'blistered', but the diaphragm was made up of three layers of rubber, not glued together, but held by the central fixture.      But clearly, the part exposed to fuel had been stretched - maybe by the pressure as well - and when disassembled the layers didn't lie flat, as in the replacements.    And thank your for the Viton A and B classification, which I had wot not of!   That led me to the Wiki page that lists FOUR types!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viton

My only reason for going for this type of PRV was the ease of adjusting the pressure, when the OE valve needs to be dismantled to do so.    

JohnC - another test!  Why not, I'll give it a try.    Being self-isolated for my age, I've plenty of time to fill!

John

Edited by john.r.davies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you tested the volts John (see my post above)

Cheers,

Waldi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/10/2020 at 11:47 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Hi John,

I am now tripping down memory lane.....All these ideas we mulled over or tried 40 years ago.

I recall the main complaint about the Lucas pump assembly being the motor not the pump part.  So can you get a suitable power brushless DC motor and attach it to a Lucas geared pump?   The other issue with the Lucas pump installation in aTR was the vertical orientation fitment in a confined airless space.  The motor armature thrust being taken by the pump gears is a rubbish design. Cool the motor, lay it down, beef it up and you could be on to a winner.  

 There was a car with twin Lucas pumps to try to reduce the load on the motors.  The outlet size to the pumps was important or they just screamed.  The Bosch pumps required a large fuel flow at the inlet, greater than the standard Lucas which is addressed by additional or larger tank outlets.  The  Facet priming pump was a good option, which you have adopted.  A reservation was main pump demand exceeding Facet supply but you have addressed that too.  
Pierburg pumps were tried but I do not recall them surpassing the Bosch units.   

The idea that Bosch was the magic bullet was misplaced as the Bosch system is said to be hyper sensitive to any water ingress in the fuel causing corrosion to any component.  
 

Cheers

Peter W

I use the Bosch 972 pump as specified by Bosch in 1985 by a Bosch engineer who had aTR6. This pump is a diesel Merc pump which has no problem of pumping up to 150 psi and on my car has a low running current of 7amps. When originally fitted I had to unscrew the PRV setting some what as my calibrated psi gauge was showing over 130psi. Its been working for over 40 years so in my opinion Bosch is the way to go? 

Bruce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waldi,

I have ignition live feed to a relay at the pump, gives 12.5V at the pump, drops to 10 when it runs, but so it does at the battery - it's using a lot.

 

Aston,  

My original supplier told me that Bosch no longer make a suitbale pump - moderns run of only 40psi or so. unless direct injection, and they use a mechanicla booster.    No doubt yours is the real thing!

I took the pump out today, and sent it off to be tested.   What drained out of the pump was strongly discoloured, dark but not rusty.   I'll report on the result.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John,

Ever thought of going the whole hog and fitting a Lucas mechanical pump from Kinsler after starting on the electric?

Alan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

Waldi,

I have ignition live feed to a relay at the pump, gives 12.5V at the pump, drops to 10 when it runs, but so it does at the battery - it's using a lot.

 

Aston,  

My original supplier told me that Bosch no longer make a suitbale pump - moderns run of only 40psi or so. unless direct injection, and they use a mechanicla booster.    No doubt yours is the real thing!

I took the pump out today, and sent it off to be tested.   What drained out of the pump was strongly discoloured, dark but not rusty.   I'll report on the result.

John

Hi John,

When my engine was rebuilt 2 1/2years ago, I enquired about a new pump of the same part number from a main Bosch dealer. I was quoted 26 weeks delivery? Apparently Merc. had forced Bosch to produce an order of 500 off for the UK market, as customers were still requiring them for there old diesel Mercs so I bought one as a safe guard. But there had been a change of part number  to :0-580-254-952. Yes it is a direct injection pump. Unfortunately I cannot remember their name of the supplier. But I am still looking?

Bruce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a new original Bosch pump, next day delivery from my local car parts shop, around 100 euro.

Waldi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alan,   Gosh, never thought of (?knew of?) those. But you say, "after starting from electric".    Does one need an electric pump for starting?   That would rather spoil the idea, wouldn't it?

Bruce, nice history, but ....   if no longer available!

Waldi,   Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar?    So what's the Part No.?

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no intrinsic problem with Bosch pumps and there's a few models do this duty, with prices all over the place. Waldi's bought  one recently so he knows the current market.

But are you  sure you've solved the underlying problem? Fixing the 10V at the battery with the engine running could be worth a look.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

 

Waldi,   Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar?    So what's the Part No.?

John

Hi John,

see my post from March 10, it’s in there and why I selected it.

Waldi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Alan,   Gosh, never thought of (?knew of?) those. But you say, "after starting from electric".    Does one need an electric pump for starting?   That would rather spoil the idea, wouldn't it?

Bruce, nice history, but ....   if no longer available!

Waldi,   Bosch make so many different fuel pumps - is that one fully capable of 100psi/6.5bar?    So what's the Part No.?

John

John,

They are still for sale on the internet!!!!!! at £100 to £ 200! as per last night.

Bruce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where, please, Aston?

Lots of "Bosch fuel pumps" on sale, but even Google can't find any labelled "0580.464.126" as specified by Waldi.

And few say what pressure they are rated for, those that do aren't as high as 100psi/6.5bar.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

Where, please, Aston?

Lots of "Bosch fuel pumps" on sale, but even Google can't find any labelled "0580.464.126" as specified by Waldi.

And few say what pressure they are rated for, those that do aren't as high as 100psi/6.5bar.

John

John,

Enter Bosch part number and description to find?

There are a lot more sites selling this this pump than when I looked last night. Example buycarparts.co.uk @ £191.79 or Mister Auto @ £137.00. for 0-580-254-952. A point to note is that some have screw terminals or socket terminals. Screw is preferred but you can easierly over come the socket terminals, these are for Ford cars. therefore ask before you buy.

Bruce.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John L, thanks, but it's long way from me, it's for a Vitesse so no need for originality, and I don't want the uncertainty of a well used Lucas pump!   While I do have the uncertainty of a doubtful Bosch!

Aston, Ah!  Translation difficulty, I think.   Waldi used stops, Continental usage?  While hyphens hit the spot for Google!   I don't doubt Waldi's recommendation, but I'd like to see the rated pressure listed on those, and most don't.  And anyway, they are all "out of stock"!

I've taken mine out and sent it off for a test.    What drained from the pump and filter was dark stained fuel, but not rusty.   ???

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

John L, thanks, but it's long way from me, it's for a Vitesse so no need for originality, and I don't want the uncertainty of a well used Lucas pump!   While I do have the uncertainty of a doubtful Bosch!

Aston, Ah!  Translation difficulty, I think.   Waldi used stops, Continental usage?  While hyphens hit the spot for Google!   I don't doubt Waldi's recommendation, but I'd like to see the rated pressure listed on those, and most don't.  And anyway, they are all "out of stock"!

I've taken mine out and sent it off for a test.    What drained from the pump and filter was dark stained fuel, but not rusty.   ???

John

John,

Get on to Bosch at Denham in the UK, their automotive technical division and they will email you their pressure chart, for that pump. I have found them very helpful in the past. Also you can speak to Glencoe in Staines who supply a pump, it is not a Bosch one but a substitute type to the PI Saloon car boys, they swear by them.

Bruce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

Here is a copy of the box, as said, I got it from another Dutch TR-er (Ben), and he is happy with is.

If you were you I would seriously consider to make your sismplem simpler.

What happens if your booster pump is erratic?
Or one or 2 of the upstream filters get (partially) blocked?
Woudl be able to silate the error?

Cheers,

Waldi

Found this for you:)
https://www.interexmotorsport.com/product/bosch-0-580464126-inline-fuel-pump/

 

 

image.png.b4791f830afbb360b1b6f9f7b23313fa.png

Edited by Waldi
added link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And thank you, Waldi!

That's a different number to the one you quoted before.  

I've followe Aton's advice and asked both Bosch and Glencoe for details.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

Yes, I should have removed the dots in 0580.464.126

Sorry for the confusion.

If you PM ne your mail adress I will send you the curves, but you can find them on the www.

Waldi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.