Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Article submitted to editor of local rag, So far without response. Peter

COVID-19 and D3
Professor Emeritus Peter Cobbold
As a 75 year old, and a retired cell biologist, I know that I have an unacceptable existential risk
from COVID-19. However, in what has turned out to be a stroke of good fortune, I was diagnosed
with Parkinson's disease three years ago. It took little work on Google Scholar to uncover the huge
range of broadly defensive actions of the hormone D3 ( the vitamin tag is historical). So for three
years I have been taking lots of D3 supplement as it should defend my brain from several injurious
processes. There is an added bonus: there are hints in the literature that I am raising my blood D3
level high enough to protect from the corona virus that causes COVID-19.
There are many clinical trials of supplementing with D3 that have failed to influence 'flu, which is
why your doctor cannot recommend it. So why am I reasonably confident of success? The reason is
I place especial emphasis on two studies in which the blood level of D3, which is measured as
25(OH)D3 by your clinic, was raised to physiological levels. D3 is a hormone and researchers in
USA have found the natural, physiological level of 25(OH)D3 to be 100 to 125 nmol/l (“ nano
moles per litre”, a unit of concentration). This talk by the late Professor Robert Heaney MD
describes how he and a committee of experts defined the physiological level:
https://ucsd.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=29077
The two 'flu studies that meet my physiological criterion are here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463890/
“A colleague of mine and I have introduced vitamin D at doses that have achieved greater than 100
nmol/L in most of our patients for the past number of years, and we now see very few patients in
our clinics with the flu or influenza like illness.”

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0011088
Maintenance of a 25-hydroxyvitamin D serum concentration of 38 ng/ml or higher should
significantly reduce the incidence of acute viral respiratory tract infections significantly....”

(38 ng/ml is 100 nmol/L and physiological. )
We have a pretty good idea of how D3 combats microbes. D3 is a hormone that controls around
2000 genes, 10% of our genome. Amongst the 5000 research papers on D3 published per year is
evidence that it promotes production of anti-microbial peptides, including cathelicidin and
defensins, that attack the membranes of bacteria, fungi and enveloped viruses, and kill them.
Influenza and corona viruses are enveloped. Good, the clinical findings have sound support from
cell biology.
My remaining question was: am I taking enough D3 supplements to reach that physiological blood
level? I take lots for the Parkinson's so am well above 100-125 nmol/L, but I tell family and friends
that around 2000 IU per day of D3 should be enough, or maybe 4000 IU pd for oldies who take it
up less well from the gut. In USA 4000 IU per day is regarded as safe. Sunbathing before May wont
make significant D3, and unless they eat a lot of oily fish, diet wont get them to 2000 IU. A tin of
sardines including the oil contains about 2000 IU. Of course there is a snag: it takes 2 to 3 months
for the blood level to stabilise after boosting uptake. So blood D3 rises too slowly to help anyone
infected in the next month or so. D3 is not a substitute for the hygiene and social measures advised
by the governments.
There's more background to D3 here, in a talk I gave to the Berwyn U3A:
https://u3asites.org.uk/files/b/berwyn/docs/vitamind3deficiency.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one Peter.

Since your other post here, the good lady and I are taking 10,000 whatever they are daily.

Many aThanks.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

Nice one Peter.

Since your other post here, the good lady and I are taking 10,000 whatever they are daily.

Many aThanks.

John

John,  Thank you ! - they are International Units. I've been taking that dose for months together with vitamin K2MK4MK7 to hlep the extra calciium taken up form gut go  to teeth and bone and not soft tissues. If you dont take K2, I would revert to 4000 IU pd after a month. My dental issues have gone away....its good stuff. Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Peter

Hope you are doing OK.

Since your first posts a few years ago about D3 supplements, Julie and I have been taking it daily. I think we take 25ug. She is convinced it's the reason that we haven't had any really bad colds, although she is suffering at the moment.

Let's hope it'll help with anything else that gets thrown our way.

Stay well

Rog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

Peter, I would be interested in your view of this. It concludes that relatively low doses (<800IU) of Vitamin D3 is more beneficial than higher doses (>2000IU). 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/gmqgGwT6bw0

Many thanks,

Mick

Mick, Mmetastudies suffer from aggregatinf samples form over the world, with varying age distributions, maybe diffferent seasons, diets . sun exposure and of course viruses. So there are a lot of unrecognised prat-falls that metastudies  can introduce without being known about. Big numbers in a sample do notm necessarily equate with understanding.

Thats why I place specail emphasis on attaining the physiological level of serum 25(OH)D3, 800IU wont get there, 2000 will. although 4000 for the aged,

The lack of bolus effect rings true. It takes 2 to 3months of daily supplemsnts to raise serum 25(OH)D3 and get the receptors on the genes working well. So a one of bolus wont work . Schwalfenburgs D3 Hammer works because his patients had been dosed daily for months to bring them up to physiological 100 nmol/L. Then with their vit D receptors in tune on the DNA (ie de-methylated and acetylated) a sudden bolus sees off the virus.  The Yale paper has data that jumps off the page eg fig4

I might point out that doing a meta-study is easy-peasy, no hard work just a laptop. I dont trust them as mcuh as the Yale and Schwalfnberg research

For those who have not been supplementing raisng the serum level to physiological fast is feasible with a series of boluses, I dont have the links to hand...

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Pogo said:

Hi Peter

Hope you are doing OK.

Since your first posts a few years ago about D3 supplements, Julie and I have been taking it daily. I think we take 25ug. She is convinced it's the reason that we haven't had any really bad colds, although she is suffering at the moment.

Let's hope it'll help with anything else that gets thrown our way.

Stay well

Rog

Hi Roger,  Yes thanks the PD seems to be stable...fingers crossed. 25ug is 1000 IU, so not high enough to get to physiological serum level but far better than no supplements as you have found. Safety of higher doses -eg hypercalcaemia - is a red herring, An author on this paper takes 50,000 IU perday with no ill effects:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960076018306228#bib0410

note: multiply ng/ml by 2.5 to get nmol/L

So going to 2000 IU = 50ug per day, which should get to physiologicla is safe.

Isabel takes 4000 and I take 50,,000 every Monday ( for PD), but we are mouldy oldies.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The genie is well and truly out of its bottle:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/patients-mild-coronavirus-symptoms-may-highly-infectious-study/

This means "containment" cannot work, indeed has not worked. There is no way of telling if an adjacent person is infected and highly infectious.

Peter

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

The genie is well and truly out of its bottle:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/patients-mild-coronavirus-symptoms-may-highly-infectious-study/

This means "containment" cannot work, indeed has not worked. There is no way of telling if an adjacent person is infected and highly infectious.

Peter

 

What's the confidence level for data from only 9 patients Peter?

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, stillp said:

What's the confidence level for data from only 9 patients Peter?

Pete

Pete,  It is nine sets of divers measurements that show internal conistency. The discovery of a 1000-fold faste virus shedding compared with SARS is not a statistical fluctuation. But you have identified the element of doubt that the CMO and CSO will try to hide behind, if any journo quizzes them.

Its also exactly what a virus would evovle to do to defeat our behaviour by evolving infectivity before symptoms appear.

Peter

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The paper refers to nine hospitalised cases. If they were asymptomatic, why were they hospitalised?

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't say they were asymptomatic Pete - it says they were being tested because of close contact with a known infected person:

The here-studied patients were enrolled because they acquired their infections upon known close contact to an index case, ...

All cases had comparatively mild courses (Table 2). The two patients who showed some signs of pneumonia were the only cases where sputum viral loads showed a late and high peak around day 10/11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, just goes to show I should read the whole thing before commenting!

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The New York Times had an article on 10 March discussing how one can boost one's immune system.  Vitamin D is discussed along the lines of Peter's original post (with slightly more qualification about uncertainty.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/well/live/can-i-boost-my-immune-system.html

(The NYT has suspended their paywall for coronavirus information -- I'm counting on that to make the link active for those who follow it.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don H. said:

The New York Times had an article on 10 March discussing how one can boost one's immune system.  Vitamin D is discussed along the lines of Peter's original post (with slightly more qualification about uncertainty.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/well/live/can-i-boost-my-immune-system.html

(The NYT has suspended their paywall for coronavirus information -- I'm counting on that to make the link active for those who follow it.)

Many thanks Don.  USA research into D3 is way ahead of euorope, you even have a dedicated charity. Sadly most clinicians still regard it  as a vitamin and thay can determine the correct dose. Physiology says otherwise. Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just received this from a friend - seems logical to me ?

 Advice by Japanese Doctors treating COVID-19 

The new NCP coronavirus may not show signs of infection for many days and one may not know if he/she is infected.

By the time a person has a fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs are usually 50% Fibrosis and it's too late!

Taiwan experts provided a simple self-check that we can do every morning:  Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds.  If you can complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness, etc...it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection.

In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.  

Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist never DRY.  Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY.  Even if the virus gets into your mouth...drinking water or liquids will WASH them down through your esophagus into the stomach.  Once there in tummy ...your stomach ACID will kill all the virus..If you don't drink enough water regularly the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS.  That's very dangerous!

 

Bob


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Just received this from a friend - seems logical to me ?

 Advice by Japanese Doctors treating COVID-19 

The new NCP coronavirus may not show signs of infection for many days and one may not know if he/she is infected.

By the time a person has a fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs are usually 50% Fibrosis and it's too late!

Taiwan experts provided a simple self-check that we can do every morning:  Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds.  If you can complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness, etc...it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection.

In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.  

Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist never DRY.  Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY.  Even if the virus gets into your mouth...drinking water or liquids will WASH them down through your esophagus into the stomach.  Once there in tummy ...your stomach ACID will kill all the virus..If you don't drink enough water regularly the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS.  That's very dangerous!

 

Bob


 

A quick net check shows that to be untrue Bob.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/taiwan-experts-self-check/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/drinking-water-prevent-coronavirus/

Stuart.

Edited by stuart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

Many thanks Don.  USA research into D3 is way ahead of euorope, you even have a dedicated charity. Sadly most clinicians still regard it  as a vitamin and thay can determine the correct dose. Physiology says otherwise. Peter

My Dr (an internal medicine specialist) put me on 2000 IU/day vitamin D3 three or more years ago.  Now that I'm in my early 60s I'm thinking I should up that to 4000 IU/day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another useful article from the NYT with a good explanation of what a virus is, how it hijacks our cells for replication, and especially, why soap and water work to kill them.  The detergency of a soap or cleanser during handwashing breaks the lipid droplet enclosing the viral RNA. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/11/science/how-coronavirus-hijacks-your-cells.html

The advice we're being given here is hand washing with soap and water for 20 seconds, multiple times per day.  And to avoid touching ones face.

Edited by Don H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on this thread, my wife and I have started taking 4000UI per day. Thank you for the advise Peter.

Don, we have the same advise here. How to measure 20s - sing happy birthday to yourself twice over.

Mick

Edited by Mick Forey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Mick Forey said:

Don, we have the same advise here. How to measure 20s - sing happy birthday to yourself twice over.

Mick

Unashamedly stolen from the TSSC forum -

Paddy goes to the toilet at work but doesn't return for about 20 minutes. "Where have you been all this time?" asked the boss. "Washing my hands, I forgot the words to Happy Birthday so sang Bohemian Rhapsody twice" he replied

Thank you TSSC.

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Don H. said:

My Dr (an internal medicine specialist) put me on 2000 IU/day vitamin D3 three or more years ago.  Now that I'm in my early 60s I'm thinking I should up that to 4000 IU/day.

Don,  Belt  and  braces would be to get serum 25(OH)D3 measured online via the mail. In UK it costs about £30. Then you can decide. We all differ in  our D3 metablism, I have a 30yr old fmaily member who eats healthily, including fish, is slim and tested at  15 nmol/L.  We were very lucky to find it .No idea what;s the cause, liver function tests next (the liver converts D3 to 25(OH)D3).  Nothing beats a measurement    Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted this on here about four years ago when I managed to convince my GP that my D3 was low because I have suffered with Seasonal Affective Disorder For many years  My skin is darker than my GPS and he is Egyptian or similar, he recognised my logic and my painful hip was much improved for a couple of years after taking D3 as prescribed.

Please note the dosage and frequency of the doses, I believe that my orriginal post was what prompted Peter Cobbald to research D3 in detail.

45CB1483-A60A-4F9D-B50B-C6ED4D4DBBD2.jpeg

Edited by SuzanneH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the front of the packet.

7E125590-4995-4854-A2E9-96E559DF2622.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.