Lee Dutton Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 I have a problem with my 1966 Tr4a, I had the starter motor rebuilt professionally a couple of years ago and have had no problems since, however I tried starting the car and the starter motor just did the loud whizzing noise as though the Bendix was not engaging in the ring gear I thought the battery was not at sufficient power to fire the Bendix in so I fully charged the battery.... still the same. I put the car into gear and rocked it.... no change I tried turning the square nut on the back of the starter motor... it turned easily with my fingers I tried tapping the starter motor with a hammer.....no change Any suggestions would be welcome Regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Hi Lee, it does sound like the bendix isn;t being thrown into the ring gear.. I think you will have to remove the motor and see what is going on. I suspect muck has got onto the bendix and gumming things up. Remove, clean the bendix, lubricate with a dry graphite lubricant (as used in locks) and bench test. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Hi lee, when you fitted the starter years ago - did you use grease on the Bendix sprocket? This could be glue now. This way are also Roger's thoughts... Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Thanks Roger as always, also Marco, same conclusion, guess I'II have to take it off tomorrow and have a look cheers Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Hi Lee, its usually a problem with the bedix gear and the small spiral sleeve which it moves up and down on aided by the light spring (2 nd from left in photo) The sleeve is 5th part from left. All parts need to be clean and rust free with just a drop of graphite as Roger suggests or a smear of light oil. Chris Edited March 4, 2020 by ChrisR-4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Do you know my 2 videos about the bendix starter at Youtube? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Change the battery before you dismantle the starter, it could still be a bad battery issue Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) It must work smooth like this Here you see it working on my 4A Edited March 5, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 8 hours ago, ctc77965o said: Change the battery before you dismantle the starter, it could still be a bad battery issue ...and check the earth cable to the engine, if not good the choke cable will be the only other route as an engine earth. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Thank you all so much for the advice, I will jump lead the battery first to make sure it is not a faulty battery, although I charged it up, it may have lost a bit of charge. If it starts then I guess the battery is not powerful enough to fire the Bendix, if not I will remove it and clean it up and do a bench test. I guess a bench test could be connecting the starter motor to a battery (good one ) via jump leads? is this safe? Golf is cancelled today so I will self isolate in the garage Thanks for all your help once again Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 If you do a bench test make sure the motor is very securely clamped to the bench. There's a lot of inertia when an inertia starter operates and it will fling itself quite some distance if not restrained. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Hello Lee Had a similar problem years ago that turned out to be loose/dirty contact for power connection to starter motor. Cleaned it up and made sure it was tightened up and back in business. Also agree with others above that old grease on Bendix doesn't help. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Hi all, has anyone used the jump lead test on the starter motor? If it is the battery I will be very disappointed as I purchased a LINCON battery hoping it would last a bit longer than 3 years Any suggestions on replacement battery? Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 I've had bad experience with a couple of Lincon batteries in the past so stick to Bosch now. They do a good 74 amp hr one which just fits a TR 4-6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Halfords batteries are supplied by Bosch. And if you have their trade card at a very nice price. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lee Dutton said: Hi all, has anyone used the jump lead test on the starter motor? Yes bench testing is simple with jump leads and a battery. As stated clamp the starter in a vice or to the bench. If you decide to delve inside the motor I do have a stock of NOS parts for the thing from the days when my fathers's business was rebuilding them. He used to test them for free running speed and stall torque after rebuild. Usual items are phosphor bronze shaft bushes at each end and the carbon brushes. The bending does get chewed up. The field coils get oil soaked and short circuit. I have all these as NOS spares. The fields are already built into the motor casing which makes for simple assembly if you do not have the special screwdriver and support tool. PM if you get stuck. I also have a Unipart rebuild starter assembly somewhere. It is the more modern Lucas replacement 2M100 design rather than the original M418G. Same power output just lighter construction. Cheers Peter w Edited March 5, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted March 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Some good advice, checked my battery will not hold a charge on advice from members got a Bosch battery, fits fine and good price from Tanya batteries. However still whirrsss when not engaging so took it off, fitted between steering column and inner wing with a bit of a struggle ok Bendix was very sticky old manky grease so did a full clean and then tried a bench test This is where I need some guidance. I held the starter motor in the vice and connected jump leads nothing happened Not sure why maybe someone has some ideas Question at this stage, is a high torq motor worth the added expense? or should I keep with the original cheers all Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Hi Lee, hold motor in a vice Attach earth lead tot he vice Attach positive lead to the contact/stud on the motor. It should now wizz. How much disassembly did you do to the motor to clean up the bendix.? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted March 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Hi Roger, I didn't do any disassembly as all looked in good shape. I cleaned all the sticky goo off using a combination of carburettor cleaner and dismantling fluid. Would just like to know why that spring on the end is so big!! and the return one is so small I will put a little graphite grease on the moving parts as suggested and re fit Way I look at it, it's been ok for 50 odd years had a recon maybe 10 years ago so I'II stick with it. best regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Worth checking the brushes while it's off the car. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Lee, Don’t use graphite GREASE, you need graphite POWDER. You can get little bottles of it from eBay. Clean all traces of grease/oli before you use it. (Or if you have a lot of old pencils you could remove the “Lead” and grind it down.) Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 You won't need much graphite, just the end of a pencil should do. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 17 hours ago, Charlie D said: Lee, Don’t use graphite GREASE, you need graphite POWDER. You can get little bottles of it from eBay. Clean all traces of grease/oli before you use it. (Or if you have a lot of old pencils you could remove the “Lead” and grind it down.) Charlie. Pencil lead is a mix of graphite, clay and wax...stick to the proper graphite powder...the clay is likely abrasive Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Hi, I already mentioned this in another post: about 10 years ago I washed away all the old grease form the previous owners and "greased" that with sawing machine oil, this is traded at Germany as "white oil" or "gun oil", easy to use the trade mark "Balistol" (my favorite). No problem at all since that. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Ballistol can still attract dust Marco. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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