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LED turn flasher lamps


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Hi All

I've just started changing my rear light cluster to LED bulbs (lamps, as I'm an electrician and bulbs go in the ground). And the tail/stop is ok, reverse is ok but when I put the turn/flasher lamp in the lamp holder and fit the flasher unit stops flashing and the lamp just stays on. Now from my point of view it may well be that the load is less and therefore the flasher relay cannot charge the capacitor enough to switch the coil but has anyone had this issue or should I just try another LED lamp.

Has anyone a recommendation for an LED that still looks like a lamp and not a unit with lots of flat LED flat cob dots

Thanks for any replies gents

Doors nearly finished BTW

Steve

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Hi Steve,

if you are using the standard flasher relay then these work with a bi-metal strip. The LED's will not draw enough current to heat the bi-metal strip.

You can upgrade the flasher unit to a more modern one (Durite etc )  https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-219-relays-flasher-units/p-626-12-volt-4-pin-electronic-flasher-relay

Most of the LED bulbs have an array of LEDs scattered around and do ot really look like bulbs at all.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC1.A0.H0.XLED+indicator+bulb.TRS0&_nkw=LED+indicator+bulb&_sacat=0

Many ebay items are useless so buy from a decent supplier.

 

Roger

 

Roger 

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Along with the flasher relay you can get a special reversing dash led for the indicator light, might brighter than the original. 

Gareth

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Hi

When I changed all my bulbs over to LEDs including the correct LED compatible flasher unit I still had problems with the indicators, running very slow almost on permanently. I tried a new flasher unit, and the old one, and I still couldn't get them to behave. In the end I took the car to the local auto-electrician and they diagnosed that there wasn't enough load going through the circuit to actuate the flasher properly, solved by putting a load resistor into the circuit.

Whilst you are doing this put LEDs into your instruments and warning lights, and you can actually see them at night.

Have a look at https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/ or  https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=48  they do have LED bulbs that look like bulbs, not sure whether they are suitable.

Dave

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Adding a "ballast" resistor is a pretty common recommendation, but it negates one of the main advantages of LEDs--lower current draw.  Believe me--there are flashers out there that work fine with LED lamps without the hack of ballast resistors.

Ed

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I recommend, & have supplied a lot of these flasher units, they work with both filament bulbs & led bulbs. no resistors required.

Bob

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-relays-electronic/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin

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Those flashers cope with all four indicators at once too. Hazard warning lights can be provided by a switch feeding a permanent live in to both sides of the indicator circuit.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi All

Hope your staying safe and well.

So I've changed almost all lamps to LED apart from the H4 as I'm still trying to find a suitable small but powerful lamp.

Thanks for the link to the flasher unit it's now fixed and working great.

Small note to all that you WILL need to use the 'p' connection to the Speedo indicator if you are changing the dash for LED as the circuitry on a 6 assumes that the lamp indicator is not requiring polarity which an LED lamp does. This mean it will only work for one side indicator I.e. RHS . Took me a couple of minutes  to figure this out (being a sparky by trade) but this could cause some to come a cropper if you assume an LED upgrade to the indicator just means changing the lamp.

Another note is that not all LED give the same effect as incandescent lamps, some do not light all the lens as I found with the first B9es lamps.

LHS door now completed and the rattles are all gone, now for the RHS

Thanks for all the advice given your all a blessing

Steve

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On 3/4/2020 at 8:51 AM, Chilliman said:

Only if its a double pole switch.....

..and the indicators are fed from a non ignition switched supply. If not using the hazards would require the ignition to be switched on; not good without the engine running. 

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Not an ideal arrangement - double pole & two relays means the indicators are only live as they should be with the ignition but hazards at any time....

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Accepted....but I have a battery isolator under the dash which is always used when I’m not sitting in the driving seat. It cuts out the power sockets, cb radio, horn, headlights etc all of which remain live with the ignition off. There’s no aux position on a TR3 ignition switch. 

Edited by Drewmotty
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  • 2 months later...

I have just replaced all my flasher bubs with LEDs except the side repeater lights and the dash pilot light.  I have also a LED Relay (says so on the casing), can't remember where from though, not original bi metallic relay. When I put right hand indicators on all works fine, however when i put on left hand indicator I get a lower intensity flash in the right hand repeater lamp. If I switch the right hand front main flasher bulb back to incandescent it is ok, no unwanted flash in the right hand repeater lamp. Any ideas ? New relay, if so which one ? Earthing problem somewhere ? Having studied TR6 wiring diagram, seems that the negative side from the pilot light goes down whichever way is not turned, ie if left turn, negative is down Green/White, but if right turn, negative is down Green/Red, could that somehow be the problem ? But why not then get residual flash on left side when right turn ?  I am useless with car electrics, so any help appreciated!   

Thanks,

Pete   

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As you say, the TR6 has a peculiar arrangement where the dash pilot bulb is connected between both sides of the indicators and uses the un-lit side as an earth path. You have replaced the low-resistance main bulbs with LEDs so the only remaining earth path is via the repeater bulbs and they are of low enough wattage to light dimly from the dashlamp earth current. Why it only does this flash on one side is strange but perhaps the repeater bulbs are not both identical? The other may be lighting but even more dimly so you cannot see it in daylight.

The cure would be to fit a bi-directional LED in the dash tell-tale as that will then draw too low a current to light the repeater bulb.  

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An alternative  to the bi-directional LED is to add a couple of steering diodes. The schematic shows incandescent lamps, but LEDs would work as well.

Ed

Modified%20Signal.png

Edited by ed_h
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8 hours ago, RobH said:

As you say, the TR6 has a peculiar arrangement where the dash pilot bulb is connected between both sides of the indicators and uses the un-lit side as an earth path. You have replaced the low-resistance main bulbs with LEDs so the only remaining earth path is via the repeater bulbs and they are of low enough wattage to light dimly from the dashlamp earth current. Why it only does this flash on one side is strange but perhaps the repeater bulbs are not both identical? The other may be lighting but even more dimly so you cannot see it in daylight.

The cure would be to fit a bi-directional LED in the dash tell-tale as that will then draw too low a current to light the repeater bulb.  

Rob. Put a green bi-directional LEd in the pilot light in the speedo ? Who does these ? Sounds simpler than wiring in 2 diodes across the circuits that Ed suggests.

Thanks for both suggestions though. . 

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This is the sort of thing but I'm not sure about the physical size for fitting the TR lamp-holder.  It looks OK but only a test would tell for sure. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-Instrument-Gauge-Marker-Light-E10-MES-E10-987-5-SMD-Bulbs-Classic-Car-Dash-/254419181822?vti=

 

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Hi Pete

This is cured if you use a LED relay as directed above and then link the p connection of the relay to the dash indicator lamp(LED). I used the one that Bob gave me the link to. Mine work just fine with no dimming etc

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-relays-electronic/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin

 

Hope this helps and I suspect will be much easier than trying to put diodes across the switch etc.

Steve

 

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Hi Pete, Duncan from Classic Car LEDs told me the issue is:

“For the flasher relay, the issue you may have is the opposite side LEDs or side repeater glowing slightly when you indicate (sympathy flash). This is caused by current passing through the warning light and earthing on the opposite side indicator circuit which is enough to light LEDs but not incandescent lamps. This can be cured with ballast but this is not ideal. Ballast resistors can run very hot and also add back in all the load that you have just saved by going to LED. The change of flasher unit is a much safer and better option.”

A couple of your responses confirm this already but therein lies you answer.

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Using ballast resistors is nothing more than a bodge.  

Changing the flasher unit to one with a P terminal requires wiring changes.  There is no need to change the flasher unit or the wiring if you can find a suitable bi-polar LED bulb or use a diode bridge with a normal LED.

 

Edited by RobH
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