TR6 CP how do you drive it?

[TR6_PI_1969]

Hello everyone,

 

I am 36, my name is William, I have owned a '69 TR6 CP (ICP265..LP) since June 2016, and I feel concerned in its good health, learning plenty of things... it's a real pleasure BUT :

 

Even though it may sound funny to you, one area of concern to me is how to drive this car, and maybe this car with this particular CP configuration. 

 

1/ Do you drive « on the torque »... or do you go high in revs, once everything is hot ? 

 

I ask this because I have a tendancy to not go beyond 3000rpm on 3rd and 4th. Speed is enough to me at this rpm... and I was bedding-in the engine, I have accomplished approx 500 miles since its overhaul.

And I ask mostly because my mechanic keeps telling me I have to run this lady, sometimes, in higher rpm range, for its good health. My drives last mostly 1 hour, going through town traffic to reach more appropriate country roads afterwards.

I take her out twice a month.

The car does not like town, that's for sure, I feel it wants to express somewhere else ! My mechanic also tried the car recently, it goes higher than 3000rpm without issue. But in town, he noticed the spark-plugs may be too wet. There's a noticeable hesitation mostly when car is hot, at 1000-1500rpm. Then OK.

Technical aspect / config :

Injectors new as well as metering unit from 69 completely checked and adjusted in England, no smoke...

I use NGK BP6ES, I may try NGK BP5ES as my car is a lead-free head, after reading many posts on this subject on this forum...

Plugs started to be wet slowly maybe 300 miles after engine overhaul. No oil consumption.

Oil & filter changed circa 400miles, head adjusted, spark-plugs cleaned. 

Fuel return from MU checked some time ago, so I will check it again. The choke lever close to battery goes fully back to 0 :-) and butterflies synchro was checked.

The PO chose a Twin Sports System exhaust... which I hate more and more ! But that's another subject... even though at 3000rpm you feel like much more. Too noisy to me...

The PO also chose to put SS injector hoses...  

 

So I am thinking about going more often at higher rpms. From what I understand, my driving style as well as time spent in traffic during my short 1h drives do not play in my favor...:-)

 

2/ I am a bit hesitant as I noticed that this TR6 engine is a long-stroke... isn't 3000rpm already high for these engines (I may be completely wrong) ?

 

3/And last, my engine overhaul is not so far, only 500 miles accomplished since... is it already OK to go during short times at 3500-4000rpm ? 

 

Owning also a CF car from July 76, still in its original configuration, air pump, original mildsteel crossbox config exhaust, well that's a completely different car ! I drive at a max of 2500- sometimes 3000rpm, and the car seems OK like this, and it's comfortable in town.

 

If you get lost in this 1st post, well, I know my English is not extra good, so your point of view to 1/ 2/ and 3/ would be helpful to me ! ;-) Have a nice TR week-end :-D

 

[Mike C]

Once it's run in  , drive it like a normal car, take it to the red line if the occasion demands. The original owners handbook said avoid full throttle on a cold engine or at low engine speeds for the first 1000 miles. Don't rev the engine during this period unless it is thoroughly warmed up and not pulling hard. 

The main thing is to use the car- I've had a lot of problems after leaving it in the garage for months, whereas driving it every week it's as reliable as a modern car.

When I used to keep the car in Melbourne I had problems with plug fouling due to the stop/start traffic. I replaced the plugs with NGK BUR 6ET plug's and the car's never fouled a plug since. I believe the triple electrode design was developed in the 1990's to combat a fouling problem that a new generation of   engines had at that time- but they work well in TR6's.

[Jctr6EFI72]

Hello from France :-)

I am not an expert on TRs as I own mine since november but thinking to buy one tr for 6 years...I am also very fan of mechanic and i have been reading all the 800 pages of this forum:-))))

About your recent overhaul you are right, it is necessary for a better running-in to go progressively in high revs...each time a little more but short. The idea is to have piston warming and cooling often. And this ...I would say 2000 miles if everything is new’ may be more if only rings were replaced as old bores are not totally tound where rings are !

about having long runs at high rev I have read quite often that this is really one thing this engine does not appreciate

of course it is an old design and maybe oil does not circulate an appropriate way at high rev or as you say due to long stroke

 

about mine, i m impressed by the torque at low rev...quite like my diesel day to day. As I have the famous twin exhaust I do not hesitate to use the overdrive . I have been doing 700 miles back from north uk at 2500 rpm and the garage had told me it is ok for the car to go directly back, maybe not for you :-)

like all old cars after being in trafic it is always good to clean the engine with a little high revs !

[PodOne]

Lots of ideas on how to run a new engine in as there are stars in the sky. So for what its worth here's how I have run mine in and so far never had an issue yet!

1) Fit engine and check for leaks. Turn over and establish oil pressure/spark and fuel. Fill with mineral oil.

2) Start and allow to warm up check for leaks adjust timing.

3) Drive off onto a quite road accelerate up to 4000rpm and lift off the pedal and allow the car to decelerate on max vacuum to seat the rings. Repeat process about 10 times. Stop check for leaks.

4) Drive for 250 miles without labouring the engine if you can in one go and use the entire rev range. Then drop oil and replace with fresh mineral oil and again check for leaks, retorque anything that requires it.

5) Drive another 500 miles as normal and give it some beans. Drop oil and replace with your choice of oil.

Will sound harsh to some I'm sure and have toes curling but it has worked for me over the years.

Andy 

[TR6_PI_1969]

I am reading all this with attention many thanks :-) from Melbourne also great! 

Indeed I don't run the car every week, that's an important point. I have heard about the triple electrodes benefits on some of your cars...

Interesting point also about the run-in mileage you preconize. 

[super6al]

Not as harsh as modern factory built engine are ran on test. Full beans with manifold glowing red!! Mind you tolerances probably much tighter now than when the Tr's were built. Bottom line is be sensible but they are meant to be used .

A lot of the running in advice relates to other parts of the car (clutch, brakes, tyres etc) as much as the engine. 

Alan 

[North London Mike]

Whilst not a TR6, Moby does have a TR6 engine and we normally drive it like we stole it (only joking officer) in the lower gears

Abroad doing the 10CR or similar, the engine will cruise as fast as is reasonable in the conditions, OR, you can ride the torque

I was once told the 'big no no' with old engines is changing how you drive them. Engines that have dawdle along for years don't take to suddenly being raced up to the red line

Remember early S1 XJ6 2.8, cruised around at 2000 rpm all year and then raced on the annual holiday abroad, promptly blew up !!

Conclusion: Once run in, drive it to your style, change the oil annually and enjoy..............

 

[foster461]

Hi William, I am definitely in the drive it like you stole it category but I choose my opportunities. I live in a rural area with narrow roads and low speed limits that I obey but I also live a few miles from a major highway where the speed limit is 55mph and the ambient traffic speed is 80mph. There is nothing more fun than hammering down the on-ramp in 3rd gear, rpm around 5000, merging with traffic as the tach hits the red line, pop it into 4th, continue to accelerate and engage overdrive. Now up to traffic speed, 80mph, overdrive 4th and a TR6 in its happy place at 3000 rpm.

Stan

[brian -r]

Some good advice already given . From 10 years ownership of an early car I can advocate using it regularly and getting the feel of it.

In my younger days (a long time ago) when these cars were relatively new the advice was to keep the revs down for the first 500 mls or so and then gradually increase the revs until you reach 1,500 mls  and then you can red line it if you wish. 

Mine is old and not in perfect health but loves being used and will quite happily sit at 4.500 rev' s .

I also find that mine is not too happy after a  time in traffic but I find the occasional blip of the throttle and keeping the rev's up staying in the lower gears gives a fairly smooth town drive.

These car's are very individual and all have their own character unlike modern cars. One thing they all have in common is that they love to be driven and not wrapped in cotton wool.

There is no better experience than a TR6 on" full song" .

Brian

 

[stuart]

12 hours ago, North London Mike said:

Remember early S1 XJ6 2.8, cruised around at 2000 rpm all year and then raced on the annual holiday abroad, promptly blew up !!

 

 

That was nothing to do with your driving style Mike, there was a problem with the advance curve on the distributor and it would run far to advanced at higher RPM and they used to blow half crown sized holes in the top of the pistons, Jaguar acknowledged this and there was a service bulletin to the dealers to retard the ignition instead of following the one in the service manual. Only problem then was the engine was gutless hence why they dropped the 2.8 version with the advent of the Series 2 (2.8 was a tax dodge for export markets anyway.)

Stuart.

[North London Mike]

Thanks Stuart, I just recalled them blowing up ! 

[ntc]

It’s a sports car just drive as such 

[Mk2 Chopper]

CP's tend to be more lumpy at lower revs due to the cam, and as you noticed when driving your CR, it's better as they changed the engine to be this way. 

I think it's good to 'open' the engine up from time to time, using the full rev range on occasion, maybe let your engine run in for a bit longer and then start increasing the revs, otherwise why have a sports car? 

Gareth

[Tom Fremont]

I have what amounts to a CP engine on Webers vs. the LUCAS P.I.; it has the CP cam and wide port head on a TR250 short block. It's done 130K miles since its last rebuild and shows no sign of giving up; strong oil pressure, very little oil consumption and continued satisfying performance. I always take it to at least 4500 rpm on a run, and sometimes to 5500 though never dwell there. These days I rarely visit 100 MPH ( getting older can have that effect ) which is only about 3850 rpm in O/D.

One thing I noticed about 90K miles ago was tar accumulating on the inlet valve stems. I switched to SHELL fuel and have used cleaning additives ever since; first STP Gas Treatment and now SeaFoam. They seem to do the trick. I attribute this phenomenon to the long duration of the CP cam but others can chime in with better ideas.

On my other TR250 with much more extreme cam and higher c/r I used 20W-50 oil from the beginning and would estimate the break in period at 3-4000 miles. It doesn't get as hot to the touch after a 10 mile run now and the crankcase pressure seems to have dropped as well. After 1000 miles I did whatever I wanted rpm wise, up to 5500.

Cheers,

Tom

[TR6_PI_1969]

5 hours ago, ntc said:

It’s a sports car just drive as such 

I will, I feel from all your posts that's the best I have to do, as I have passed 500 miles since rebuild. So I will change plugs, go progressively higher in rpms till 1000-1500 miles and do longer drives more often. Thanks!