DavidBee Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, EliTR6 said: Giverny tomorrow for Monet's gardens. Wish us luck! Monet's Giverny! Amazing place and amazing paintings. I cannot forget the one in the Tate, in London. More 20thc. than 19thc. The very best of luck for your journey home. Lovely smiles the two of ye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 22 hours ago, DavidBee said: Monet's Giverny! Amazing place and amazing paintings. I cannot forget the one in the Tate, in London. More 20thc. than 19thc. The very best of luck for your journey home. Lovely smiles the two of ye. Thanks David. We had a great 2 1/2 days. This afternoon was a lot less enjoyable! We couldn't get tickets to the gardens in Giverny so after a walking around the village and an overpriced lunch we decided to drive home. The gearbox started clattering soon afterwards. Getting towed all the way home wasn't covered by my roadside assistance contract so with some friendly advice from @Chris59 we slowly made our way home. I stopped halfway and drained and refilled the gearbox. Lots of metal filings in the old oil. Stopped at a garage shortly after to put the car on a lift. The mechanics were useless and the owner as unfriendly as they come. They're charged me 50eur to empty the box and fill with 75w90 as the 20w50 was dripping everywhere. We made it the 130mi home with the gearbox singing away. We had a few spells of quiet then whatever had broken off was been picked up and the noise started again. I'll inspect the box as soon as I can. Hopefully it will last until I can afford an overdrive unit but obviously a lot of damage has been done. Fingers crossed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) Poor old girl Edited July 8, 2020 by EliTR6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 On the phone with my insurers... Still smiling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Any way I can inspect the 'box without pulling it out of the car? I'm guessing removing the top cover will only reveal the selector rods? Cheers Ps: apart from the whine / metallic clattering the box works in every gear as do the syncros Edited July 9, 2020 by EliTR6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
little jim Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 11 hours ago, EliTR6 said: Thanks David. We had a great 2 1/2 days. This afternoon was a lot less enjoyable! We couldn't get tickets to the gardens in Giverny so after a walking around the village and an overpriced lunch we decided to drive home. The gearbox started clattering soon afterwards. Getting towed all the way home wasn't covered by my roadside assistance contract so with some friendly advice from @Chris59 we slowly made our way home. I stopped halfway and drained and refilled the gearbox. Lots of metal filings in the old oil. Stopped at a garage shortly after to put the car on a lift. The mechanics were useless and the owner as unfriendly as they come. They're charged me 50eur to empty the box and fill with 75w90 as the 20w50 was dripping everywhere. We made it the 130mi home with the gearbox singing away. We had a few spells of quiet then whatever had broken off was been picked up and the noise started again. I'll inspect the box as soon as I can. Hopefully it will last until I can afford an overdrive unit but obviously a lot of damage has been done. Fingers crossed! Looked like this a few years back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, EliTR6 said: Any way I can inspect the 'box without pulling it out of the car? I'm guessing removing the top cover will only reveal the selector rods? Cheers Ps: apart from the whine / metallic clattering the box works in every gear as do the syncros You can see most of the gears once the top cover is off, the selectors are built into the top cover, but having said that you will no doubt have to remove the gearbox to make any repairs. The good news is that with a little care and a manual these gearboxes are not to hard to take apart and more importantly put back together again. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 Eli, if you pull the top cover, selecter rods and forks come away with that. Lets you see th emainshaft and turn all the gears seeing if you have dropped a tooth. You've changed the oil twice so there will not be much to lift with a magnet, but you can get an idea. If you have a totally knackered box, and are looking for overdrive, then I would go the whole hog, and buy a guaranteed suitable box, with O/D outright, no point in wasting a cent on something you really don't want anyway. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 Eli I agree with John if you don't have overdrive look around for a gearbox with overdrive and go for one from a later model or even a saloon, that way you will not only gain the overdrive but also synchronisation on 1st. I have a 3 synchro box in my TR3A and a saloon box in my TR6 and every time I drive the TR3 it catches me out as I go into 1st after reversing out of the garage George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 A 4 synchro box with overdrive is a little bit longer cos the front lip is a bit thicker so the rear fitting will need to be modified a bit. james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Thank you all! Made the most of a spare hour and managed to get the top cover off, leaving the box in the car. Can't see any missing teeth on the gears. I went fishing with a magnet but no chunks or even filings were picked up. Is the play in the video below normal? Edited July 11, 2020 by EliTR6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 This is a great explainer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 If I were a betting man I`d put my money on the layshaft needle roller bearings having broken up. Ralph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 By the way, I feel really bad about my comment re the thing you don`t pack will be the thing that breaks. I feel as if I jinxed you. I once had to drive a series 1 landrover from Torquay to Leeds with a broken lay shaft using only low range 4th,normal 4th, and luckily had an overdrive giving me a cruising gear once I hit the motorway. Mastered changing from low to high range on the move (eventually). Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 1st video - play looks normal to me. 2nd video that noise is not right, but could just be the reverse gear having moved out of position . Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: If I were a betting man I`d put my money on the layshaft needle roller bearings having broken up. Ralph. Is there any way of checking without removing the box? I'm not superstitious, don't worry. And short of packing a spare gearbox, there's not much I could have done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) If you can wrangle a length of cord or wire down and under the bottom (layshaft) gears and try lifting the gear cluster. Try at each end. If there is any up and down movement the shaft and bearings have gone. The needle rollers run directly on the shaft and take all the thrust load of the gears trying to force themselves apart and come out of mesh. Eventually the hardened surface of the layshaft wears, which then accelerates wear on the rollers. It is the weak point on many gearboxes, not just triumphs. Luckily, usually, a new shaft and rollers sorts it, the lay gear itself is usually OK. If when driving it is noisiest in first and goes quieter in fourth its the layshaft, as in 4th gear the drive is directly through the mainshaft and very little load is placed on the layshaft. The worst wear is always at the 1st/reverse end, as thats where the most torque is put through the box. The box is going to have to come out though whatever the cause for a strip and re-build. 3 shafts shown below with typical wear. Top 2 are Austin A35 and you can see where the case hardening has started to break up, the bottom one is from the saloon overdrive box I just overhauled prior to putting in my 3a. That one had not gone through the hardening, but was replaced anyway with new bearings. Ralph Edited July 12, 2020 by Ralph Whitaker Additional paragraph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: If you can wrangle a length of cord or wire down and under the bottom (layshaft) gears and try lifting the gear cluster. Try at each end. If there is any up and down movement the shaft and bearings have gone. The needle rollers run directly on the shaft and take all the thrust load of the gears trying to force themselves apart and come out of mesh. Eventually the hardened surface of the layshaft wears, which then accelerates wear on the rollers. It is the weak point on many gearboxes, not just triumphs. Luckily, usually, a new shaft and rollers sorts it, the lay gear itself is usually OK. If when driving it is noisiest in first and goes quieter in fourth its the layshaft, as in 4th gear the drive is directly through the mainshaft and very little load is placed on the layshaft. The worst wear is always at the 1st/reverse end, as thats where the most torque is put through the box. The box is going to have to come out though whatever the cause for a strip and re-build. 3 shafts shown below with typical wear. Top 2 are Austin A35 and you can see where the case hardening has started to break up, the bottom one is from the saloon overdrive box I just overhauled prior to putting in my 3a. That one had not gone through the hardening, but was replaced anyway with new bearings. Ralph Great, thanks Now I know what to look for! Car is on ramps, need to remove the clutch slave cylinder and starter motor but everything else is ready. I'll pick up some angle iron tomorrow after work to make up a lift. Am leaning towards buying an overdrive box and rebuilding the 3 synchro myself to sell on but mainly for the learning experience as I'm guessing they're not worth much without od. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Phew! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Is this split pin replacement standard practice? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Wow! That’s different. Thought initially someone had stuck a spare Allen key in there! james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) I'm going to bite the bullet and install a quality 4 synchro box with A type OD http://www.tr3a.info/gearbox_swap.htm This link has been very helpful. The clutch worked fine and I'm inclined to leave it be. Probably has only 8k miles on it. I've ordered a toggle switch, the 2 od looms, relay and longer studs. However I'm a bit puzzled by how to move the clutch nose carrier from the old box onto the new one. I don't need to dismantle the input shaft, right? Just the clutch fork and the attached bits? And are the tr3 and tr4 input shafts the same? I read that the tr6 one is shorter Thanks Edited July 15, 2020 by EliTR6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Eli, nose is part of the box, and you should be getting one screwed to your new gearbox. Clutch, and bearing, fork and crossshaft are all the same and a straight swop. Make sure fork is crossdrilled to shaft at 90* to teh tapered pin and then wired together. Wiring is simple, just ask. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 36 minutes ago, John Morrison said: Eli, nose is part of the box, and you should be getting one screwed to your new gearbox. Clutch, and bearing, fork and crossshaft are all the same and a straight swop. Make sure fork is crossdrilled to shaft at 90* to teh tapered pin and then wired together. Wiring is simple, just ask. John. Many thanks John! I'll have a look at the pin tomorrow evening. Is the cutaway ebook "sidescreen triumphs" know to them forum? I did a search on Brian Fisher, the author, but nothing came up. For $10, it's a great learning resource! http://bestchoiceeducation.com/sidescreen-triumphs-inside-story-backstory/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Eli Just for reference and as mentioned above this is my fork /shaft cross drilled and bolted done by Pete cox. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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