Lee Dutton Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hi all, after your good advice have sorted out oil and filter to use for the engine I am sure this subject has been done to death but I will change the oil in the box/OD Which oil to use 20/50 or EP90 ? I noticed a post about the assembly of the brass filter is there a definitive picture showing correct way, do I need a special tool to get this off? Any tips gratefully received kind regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I am sure you'll get many responses concerning lubrication & foaming and other technicalities...but i have a simple human factor for you...use anything but EP90 because EP90 stinks and your gearbox will leak (they all leak) and EP90 on the hot gearbox casing or, worse still, on the exhaust will give your car a special aroma that will avoid issues with insects & animals but also frighten children and cause WAGs to develop headaches and alternative plans... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hi Lee, in the 50's early 60's the OD manufacturer warned against using EP oils. However in the mid 60's onwards TRiumph recommended EP90 etc. !!! Gearbox oils work well - I use Penrite GB40. The easiest thing to remember is what not to use. Do not use an engine oil - as these may contain detergents that may froth and cause the OD pump to have issues. Do not use GL5 oils as these contain some nasties. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signalredshaker Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Penrite GB40 every time. TR Register shop used to sell it but I'm not sure of the present situation. Which was very handy- I could pick some up at the NEC, Stoneleigh etc. and save P+P. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 moss via ebay is a good price and free P and P https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dynolite-Gear-40-Oil-1L-replace-EP90-SAE40-for-Gearboxes-for-Classic-motors/183309444270?hash=item2aae1824ae:g:r4EAAOSwSQFaKnfH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 +1 (or is that +2?) for Penrite GB40. Cheers, Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Hello All I use Morris Golden Film SAE40 low detergent I talked to this man at Stoneleigh and he said it is just as good and if you look at the specs on his site you can see that! But it is cheaper! https://www.classic-oils.net/ Roger ps it has been in my rebuilt(by me) gearbox/od all this year and works fine pps when I rebuilt the gearbox I tested it on the bench to set the oil pressures and it did not foam just a bit aerated ! ppps this is how I tested mine Edited January 22, 2020 by rogerguzzi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Thanks to all, just ordered Penrite GB40 for O/D and gearbox as recommended. Will not use the EP oils, and yes they do smell!! cheers to all Lee Any advice on the brass filter? is it worth taking out to clean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 You should certainly clean the filter from time to time Lee, if nothing else it's condition will give a guide as to the internal state of the overdrive. The filter sits on top of three magnetic washers, which should also be cleaned of ferromagnetic particles before reassembly. The best tool to remove the plug is a 'C' spanner of suitable size. In the absence of this you could unscrew the plug by gently tapping on one of the ears with a brass drift. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 17 hours ago, rogerguzzi said: Hello All I use Morris Golden Film SAE40 low detergent I talked to this man at Stoneleigh and he said it is just as good and if you look at the specs on his site you can see that! But it is cheaper! https://www.classic-oils.net/ Roger ps it has been in my rebuilt(by me) gearbox/od all this year and works fine pps when I rebuilt the gearbox I tested it on the bench to set the oil pressures and it did not foam just a bit aerated ! ppps this is how I tested mine Used Morris straight 40 for a decade now, plus their 20;50 engine oil without issue, Great value product. Thanks for the link Roger, and a great test rig. Can you detail the coupling between the motor and box. Cheers, John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 The best tool to remove the overdrive's large eared plug is that available from Overdrive Repair Services - not cheap, but doesn't damage the ears. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, ianc said: The best tool to remove the overdrive's large eared plug is that available from Overdrive Repair Services - not cheap, but doesn't damage the ears. Ian Cornish Illustrated here half way down the page. https://www.overdrive-repairs.co.uk/buy-spares.php?cat=A Type Spare Parts List Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, John Morrison said: Used Morris straight 40 for a decade now, plus their 20;50 engine oil without issue, Great value product. Thanks for the link Roger, and a great test rig. Can you detail the coupling between the motor and box. Cheers, John. Hello John This what I wrote on Sideways forum The other gearbox drive is just a tube to fit over the input shaft with 2 screws for the drive(numpty threw an old course spline plate away before thinking!) The motor coupling is 4 dogs on each one and a rubber disc in the middle so does not need to be perfectly in line(old stock from a previous life?) Roger I built the test rig with the centre from and old clutch plate a bit of tube and bit of old rocker shaft motor is only 1/2hp so struggles a bit but O/Drive works in all gears (solenoid direct power) My 2nd gear interlock works and it also drops out between 3rd and 4th now so I have achieved what I set out to do Results as listed 1st motor 1450 non o/d 415 with o/d 533 oil pressures 320 psi 2nd 1432 662 853 330psi 3rd 1385 995 1276 340psi 4th 1400 1400 1800 350psi I have decided to use Morris Golden Film SAE 40 Classic API SD/CC The reason is Penrite only do their GB40 in 1lt bottles at about £8 and Morris is £20 for 5lt and it states it is anti foam so what is needed for an O/Drive? I looked at the specs on classic oils web site and they are as near as dam it the same and I asked the man at Stoneleigh and he said it would be fine. I am not sure whether to increase the pump pressure as I noticed in the works manual it say 375 to 400psi not as that chart I posted? I wonder if this was so they did not have to stock 2 different O/Ds for Spitfire and GT6s ? Hello All I have had another play at it today and drained the oil out after running it for some minutes and it was not frothy just a bit aerated I have added a 0.006" shim under the relief spring and now I am getting 1st @ 1450rpm 415 rpm @ 340 psi = 7.5mph (but a lot of pulsing on the gauge 320/360)as you would expect? 2nd @ 1445 rpm 667 rpm & 350 psi = 12mph 3rd @ 1417rpm 1005rpm & 360 psi =18.5 mph 4th @ 1355 rpm 1355rpm & 375 psi = 24.5mph I get very slightly higher pressures than these when it has been stood and presumably the oil has de aerated ? I get the same as Buckeye describes a pause in pressure rise at 180 to 200 psi(pistons moving!) So overall I am pleased now and I think I will have overdrive on 2nd so at say 2000rpm(925rpm) = 16.6 mph = 21.25mph or 2400 rpm = 24mph = 30.772mph Roger ps I will run it a bit more on the bench and the fill with fresh oil as a few bits came out with 1st lot but I filtered it through a 400 micron strainer and reused it for testing A small update I took Spitty for a spin up our bridle track today and I am pleased to say the Overdrive works in 2nd , 3rd and 4th and drops out between all gears It will engage at about 10/15mph in 2nd(may be a bit slowish) but if I rev to 2000rpm in 2nd and engage it seems the same as normal and drops revs by 500rpm So I am pleased with my efforts (just some trim to refit and track the rear wheels) Edited January 23, 2020 by rogerguzzi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Many thanks Roger, hope you are well chuffed with yourself- you should be. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, John Morrison said: Many thanks Roger, hope you are well chuffed with yourself- you should be. John Hello John Yes it works well and I have a home made overdrive logic box so I wanted the o/d to drop out between 4th and 3rd I do not use the 2nd o/d much but it is useful when we are touring in the mountains as Spitty,s 2nd gear is a bit low and 3rd a bit high when fully loaded and going around hairpin bends! A small update on my Mad Idea of O/D on second gear (as posted on Sideways forum last year) Well as some of you know we are touring Spain & Portugal. I have hardly used 2nd O/D until today and we were going up steep hills and hairpin bends with all the load in the boot and I can say it works a treat it gives a useable 20 to 30 mph range.(about 3000 rpm @ 30mph) and you can flick in and out on the hairpins as needed So instead of revving the nuts off in 2nd or slogging in 3rd 2nd O/D is just right(or driving like a maniac not possible with the Memsahib on board!) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 The concern with using 20 50 engine oil in a gearbox is that some of the viscosity modulators will break down when subject to the shearing forces in the gear mechanism. This isn’t a problem if you are prepared to change the oil annually. Otherwise I would stick with decent 40 gearbox oil or EP 90 providing it is marked as safe for use with yellow metals an overdrive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hi All Picked up on the O/D testing picture and thought I would show you mine Basically the gearbox is mounted onto the engine stand and an electric motor (borrowed from a friend) has pulley diameter 6" is added to fit a fan belt 'v' a similar size pulley is mackled to the output flange and fan belt attached to the two Switch on and slowly tighten the belt to take the drive to the flange Several things are important, first the flange is driven anticlockwise as you see it from the gearbox end, second gearbox oil in my cold garage is very viscous so the fan heater needs to warm up the box before start up. Results using a gauge from ORS (no connection apart from their good advice on the phone when asked) show 450lbs pressure dropping to about 350 on switch on but quickly recovering pressure to 450 The who;e problem started when my O/D decided to stop working so after the simple things you can do with the box still in the car I swopped the box giving me time to sort this out. got a rebuild set and the gauge from ORS and took it to bits Details on how to do it : try Pete Cox's article in technicalities and or look at "Buckeye Triumphs" article on the web PS I have rebuilt O/Ds before - often with help from ORS Hope this helps/inspires others Oh BTW I just use EP90 on road diffs and gearboxes Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hello Michael I did mine that way the first time but then I thought I would do it as it in service? no idea if it makes any difference! But it has worked ok for a few thousand miles! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 I found this article most helpful especially the part about using air pressure to engage the inner splines of the OD, it works a treat and saves a lot of frustration and the use of profanity. Graham A-Type Overdrive Overhauling - Part 8 - Preliminary test and mating with the transmission - YouTube.webloc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 1/24/2020 at 1:27 PM, Andy Moltu said: The concern with using 20 50 engine oil in a gearbox is that some of the viscosity modulators will break down when subject to the shearing forces in the gear mechanism. This isn’t a problem if you are prepared to change the oil annually. Otherwise I would stick with decent 40 gearbox oil or EP 90 providing it is marked as safe for use with yellow metals an overdrive. Ah, just in case I inadvertantly caused confusion, I meant in addition to straight 40 in my O/D Box, I use Morris 20/50 in my Engine. Andy is correct about using 20/50 in a O/D Gearbox. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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