Phil Read Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 I am presently making a TR4A which I recently baught roadworthy. I have repaired the drive shafts and rear brakes and now I am starting on the front end. I have fit new trackrod ends, which were worn, but notice there is up and down movement of the inner steering shaft, the steering wheel moves up and down @ 1/4 inch. What is the likely cause? Apart from the bushes at the top and bottom of the column, that appear ok, I cannot see any thing else that would cause this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Hi Phil, you need to look under the dash at the front and rear clamp. The front can break and the rear has a special spring clip #33 https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-tr4-4a-1961-67.html that needs to be in place. The best way to see what is going on is to remove the speedo and tacho . Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Read Posted December 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Thanks for a quick reply. The outer column is firmly fixed, it is the inner column that can be moved up and down, is this normal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Hi Phil, If it's the whole cowling (Pt No.3) that's moving then as Roger says, .... if it's the inner steering column (Pt No. 3) then you need to change two bushes (Pt No.3) Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Hi Phil, if it is physically up/down then maybe bushes #5 could be badly worn. However if you mean for/aft then it may just be the clamp #58 or the clamps for the rubber UJ's #66 (these have history) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Do you mean in and out axially, in line with the steering column? If so the column clamp in the engine compartment needs adjusting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grahamgl Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 Phil, It may be that the steering column shaft(s) are slipping in the splines, number 66 in the Moss illustration. If this is the case Roger has a fix for the problem. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) In and out? There are several posts about that on the forum. Edited December 22, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy303 Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) The most likely cause is that the inner column bushings (Item 8 in the diagram) are badly worn, which is common. If the car has sat unused for a long period it is unlikely there will not be much axial movement as rust will have seen to that. If you remove the steering wheel and shine a light down the inside of the column it will be obvious. I found this to be the case on my car. The upper inner column comes in two pieces, marked 1 and 2 on the diagram, one inside the other, which provides a range of in and out adjustment. On my car these were frozen solid from lack of lubrication and use. Likewise the splines on the couplings in the lower column, which required a lot of penetrating oil and some persuasion to come loose. There is a technique to do the bushings in situ : http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/SteeringColumn.htm Because of the fore mentioned problem with seizure I ended up removing the column anyways to disassemble and lubricate the sliding inner column. It is a very precise fit and reminded me of a rifle bolt. You can search the Register or google TR4 or TR6 column bushing replacement and find a lot of discussion. One idea, which I followed, was the leave the old ones in place and install new "uprated" delrin bushings at the very top and at the base of the outer sheet metal column. Revington sell the uprated ones that can be installed as original. Edited December 22, 2019 by Andy303 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) Issue, steering, no special model. In and out is the fake gap on #30, it goes not through, the theeted drill through it is solid! Edited December 23, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 The spigot on the rack has a scallop where the bolt that clamps the splined joint fixes, if the bolt is worn and is not clamped tight enough then the column can move in and out about 4/5 mm. Due to restricted access it’s not always easy to get this bolt tight enough. Also use a shouldered bolt not a screw and grade 8 if possible, you don’t want to snap the head off as the joint won’t come off then and access to drill it out is dire. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 I agree with Andy303 above to use the uprated bushes. Some of the bushes I have bought have been best described as a bit of plastic milk bottle. The other problem might be worn inner shaft at the top end. I had this once. Had to replace the inner shaft. Use a micrometer to check at the point where the upper bush locates - you have to remove inner column to do this. Also personally I wouldn't leave the old bushes in by just pushing them further inside the column. The bushes are held in place by the round rubber 'pips' on the side that locate in holes in the outer column. These stop the bushes working their way up or down inside. I have always removed the old bushes just in case it caused other issues. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy303 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Keith: I attempted to remove the old bushings but they were so stubborn I was afraid that I would damage the outer tube which is not that robust. I figured they old ones were not going anywhere, but for peace of mind it would probably be best to remove them if the column is on the bench. My inner shaft also had some wear on it but not enough to warrant replacement. There is a tiny bit of play, but acceptable. The real horror show was that the slop in the inner column had worn away the plastic insulation from the light switch leaving the copper wire exposed. Which explains why the previous owner had done some elaborate rewiring of the lighting circuit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 6 hours ago, ChrisR-4A said: The spigot on the rack has a scallop where the bolt that clamps the splined joint fixes, if the bolt is worn and is not clamped tight enough then the column can move in and out about 4/5 mm. Due to restricted access it’s not always easy to get this bolt tight enough. Also use a shouldered bolt not a screw and grade 8 if possible, you don’t want to snap the head off as the joint won’t come off then and access to drill it out is dire. Chris Hi Chris, those clamp bolts can be more than difficult to tighten as the clamp on the rubber UJ's is very badly made See the attached pic to see what metal is in the way. The shiny bits stop it all working properly. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) Hi, as some of you know you can solve that very simple with a hack saw cut by guiding the blade through the teethed bracket, than fix the saw blade in the saw again and make a propper cut. Keep in mind the quality of a hacksaw cut is not the saw but on the other end of the handle. Sadly on this forum there is no issue "steering", so search for "hacksaw". Have much success, Marco Edited December 23, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 see my photos here Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rogcastle Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Great illustration Marco Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi Chris, those clamp bolts can be more than difficult to tighten as the clamp on the rubber UJ's is very badly made See the attached pic to see what metal is in the way. The shiny bits stop it all working properly. Roger Yes Roger, mines an all steel UJ at rack end but can still get loose on splines if bolt is not tight enough. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Hi Chris, I've not played with the steel ones so not sure why they would loosen. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Read Posted December 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 Thanks for the super advice. I have found the problem. The column is moving up and down on the spines down at the steering rack end. Its a pig to get to but I managed to get a couple of spanners on the bolt and found it was stripped and so not tightening. Now waiting for some new high tensile nuts and bolts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 Hi Phil, the bolt was probably striped because of the problem shown in my pic above. I would seriously suggest before you refit the bolt to remove the shaft and carry put the action in either my pic or what Marco (Z320) outlined. There are 4 clamps on the 2 rubber UJ's - they are all suspect. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 Phil, use the best bolts you get - but you do not get that construction thigh it it does not work with standard bolts. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted December 24, 2019 Report Share Posted December 24, 2019 I find Allen headed HT bolts easier to use on each joint, 1 Allen key and 1 spanner works for me. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Read Posted January 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Problem solved. With a bit of a struggle I did as suggested. steering column now rock solid. Thanks guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Some really useful help on this thread, thank you all. I have 2 questions; the clamp bolt through the coupling clamp is listed as 5/16" x 1 5/8" which I'm pretty sure is not correct, my old bolt is 1/4" x 1 3/16" ; which is correct, and do you use an HT bolt for this? (maybe I should drill out the clamp to 5/16"? ) Second question is does anyone have pics of the upper steering column (in car) showing the fitting of the various brackets and what they connect to, I've tried with my pre-resto photos and workshop manual but I'm flummoxed Many thanks David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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