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British motor heritage panels - a rubbish fit


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OK, is it just me, but when trying to fit the BMH panels brought from Moss and Rimmer, I've noticed nothing fits without quite extensive fitment and modification. This has included heating bits up and reshaping using a hammer. Is it just me, or do other people seem to find the same thing? Something must be wrong at their factory as I don't think their products quite reflect the so-called quality they seem to exude in their adverts.

What are other peoples experiences?

Thanks

Adam

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Hi Adam,

there are a number of manufacturers of panels, some better than others but they all tend to have one or other problem.

on the 4/4A floors are pretty good but not perfect for the 4.

Sills  appear OK until you look at the creases where the wings fit.

Wings have every combination of issues. Bastuck wings look quite reasonable

If you can get a repairable StanPart panel then you may have better fortune.

However, look on the bright side. Somebody produces the rubbish that you can, with some hard work, get to fit.

If it wasn't there in the first place you would then have a much bigger problem.  

I am not excusing the suppliers but we have what we have for whatever reasons.

 

Roger

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Hi Graham,

absolutely spot on.

When a press tool starts to wear out, do the manufacturers stop and sort it out in order to maintain quality - no.

They push out poor quality until they can go no further.

Getting panels made that fit is available but, as you say, at a cost and a queue.

 

Roger

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Heritage front wings on my TR6 weren't a perfect fit. The curve beneath the headlamps was incorrect. This meant the brackets on the corners of the front bumper stood about 5mms out from the wing on each side. This was corrected by spacing the wings from the front valence.

Not a major problem, and probably symptomatic of press tools wearing with age.

Nigel

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3 hours ago, Nigel Triumph said:

Heritage front wings on my TR6 weren't a perfect fit. The curve beneath the headlamps was incorrect. This meant the brackets on the corners of the front bumper stood about 5mms out from the wing on each side. This was corrected by spacing the wings from the front valence.

Not a major problem, and probably symptomatic of press tools wearing with age.

Nigel

Yes always seems to be the tight curved areas which go first. When I visited BMH they were producing E Type bonnets, and using the original tooling, the curves around the 'mouth' creased. They had two ex-Longbridge panel beaters on hand to sort them out. 

Kevin

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In the maybe dozen whole or partial panels I've bought, almost all required reshaping, some minor, some fairly major. The only panel that went on essentially untouched was the rear valance for the TR6.

Ed

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It's worthy of note that even when original StanPart panels were available over the counter from Triumph Main Dealers they were the ones that had been rejected from the production line and consigned to the parts bin!!      ...  so they tended to fit where they touched and needed some gentle persuasion to look right, .... but hey ho these cars were hand built by men in brown coats, not laser guided robots.

Cheers Rob

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4 minutes ago, Rob Salisbury said:

It's worthy of note that even when original StanPart panels were available over the counter from Triumph Main Dealers they were the ones that had been rejected from the production line and consigned to the parts bin!!      ...  so they tended to fit where they touched and needed some gentle persuasion to look right, .... but hey ho these cars were hand built by men in brown coats, not laser guided robots.

Cheers Rob

Hi Rob

I think even factory panels did not fit that well, considering the amount of lead they used to load into panel joins, especially up around the screen and door pillars. If you look at some old videos, there is a CKD BMC factory video in an Irish assembly plant showing them leading the joints.

Kevin

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Same for me the BMH wings, floors, sills, boot panels all needed hours of work to fit something like and get the gaps right without recourse to piles of lead which I'm reserving for the seams and rear deck its the most enjoyable bit for me. Love it making it all fit better and stronger than when it left the factory.  

Or maybe I'm just a sad git!  

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The very best panel that I have seen was made by one of our forum posters about 5 years ago.

He could not get hold of the rear seat panel over the diff for his TR6.  So he made the press tools (massive great lumps of steel) and knocked out a dozen or so.

I spotted it when I was at Alec P's house the other year - a work of art and spot on.

So if a budding DIY'er can do it why not the Pro's.

 

Roger

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There needs to be a mind change Roger in those organisations who want to sell classic car products to owners. Fair enough it's a business but that means setting yourself up to commission the parts needed and then amortising the production costs over a number of years and products sold. That may mean the parts themselves become more expensive than normally is the case requiring a number of specialists joining together to retail the finished product and owners to accept buying a car that is very badly rotted will require more money than they thought to reneovate (what option do you have if an owner with no other source ?), that's where a mind change comes into place with classic car owners opening up their minds and buying what they see is a good necessary product.  

To show what is required to make the TR rear seat floor panel (a single plane tool requiring only male female profile forming and then pressing) which is perhaps one of the simpler panels on TRs view the following photos. Yes...the 520kgs is the starting weight for the male seat tool !

809162459_Difffloormaterial.thumb.jpg.6f034e1a081ebd1828abc85d67566533.jpg

 

Following hours of machine work which turns into this

986269666_Difffloor2.thumb.jpg.b736f8533d639638d1f41e3cc7692301.jpg

 

Which when pressed into a male opposing die (not so thick, pressed by the press in front of a former) like this (many more hours of machine work)                                       

1460013122_Difffloormale2.thumb.jpg.9a3ba8dbc38eefd370a2e1319bd92390.jpg

Diff floor pressing.jpg

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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15 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

There needs to be a mind change Roger in those organisations who want to sell classic car products to owners. Fair enough it's a business but that means setting yourself up to commission the parts needed and then amortising the production costs over a number of years and products sold. That may mean the parts themselves become more expensive than normally is the case requiring a number of specialists joining together to retail the finished product and owners to accept buying a car that is very badly rotted will require more money than they thought to reneovate (what option do you have if an owner with no other source ?), that's where a mind change comes into place with classic car owners opening up their minds and buying what they see is a good necessary product.  

To show what is required to make the TR rear seat floor panel (a single plane tool requiring only male female profile forming and then pressing) which is perhaps one of the simpler panels on TRs view the following photos. Yes...the 520kgs is the starting weight for the male seat tool !

809162459_Difffloormaterial.thumb.jpg.6f034e1a081ebd1828abc85d67566533.jpg

 

Following hours of machine work which turns into this

986269666_Difffloor2.thumb.jpg.b736f8533d639638d1f41e3cc7692301.jpg

 

Which when pressed into a male opposing die (not so thick, pressed by the press in front of a former) like this (many more hours of machine work)                                       

1460013122_Difffloormale2.thumb.jpg.9a3ba8dbc38eefd370a2e1319bd92390.jpg

Diff floor pressing.jpg

And then youve got to cut out for the diff hump.

Stuart.

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forty five years ago Peter Buckles came to the TR meeting at Eathorpe Park hotel  on the Fosses Way and held up a TR2 front wing that he had had made and told us it would cost £200. There were cries of " but I only paid £200 for the car!"    Needless to say the 'repro' wing fitted where it touched, which wasn't everywhere  it was supposed but as I said at the time,  it might not be a perfect fit of a STANPART panel but its a damn sight better than a flat sheet of steel and nobody else was offering early TR wings, not even Triumph which was still a going concern at the time. 

The heritage presses are comprised of some original metal  tooling - which have worn over time and some replacement rubber ones  which cannot reproduce the crisp lines of metal ones.  So yes repro panels can be a bit of a bugger to fit but the trick is to line everything up carefully before hand before welding . this is especially true when replacing sills, floorpans and wings. 

hoges. 

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Quote

What ever floats your boat Roger :-)

Made me laugh....even though I know where he's coming from....:rolleyes::D

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  • 3 months later...
On 12/7/2019 at 1:11 PM, stuart said:

And then youve got to cut out for the diff hump.

Stuart.

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Location:Hemel Hempstead

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Posted just now

Has anyone got Steves contact details as I need one (Rear parcel shelf) part no 910065

Regards Harry TR5 Nutter

 

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10 minutes ago, harrytr5 said:

Has anyone got Steves contact details as I need one (Rear parcel shelf) part no 910065

Regards Harry TR5 Nutter

Harry - have emailed you Steve's phone number

Cheers 

Rich

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