Clayton replacement Heater install

[silverfox4 4]

Has anyone installed a Clayton replacement heater in the TR4A?

The three mounting flanges of the Clayton Heater are flat,

 

 

whereas the original heater has stepped flanges.

 

 

 

Would the spacers  compensate for the different height.

 

Installation seems to be a little tougher than I thought. Any suggestion please

Cheers,

Alf

[mike3md 6]

Alf,

I fabricated my own casings for a heater upgrade based on the Clayton components, and from memory didn't have any issues with the missing step on the flanges. The step only brings the fixing points closer to the bottom of the plenum, and if you get the original side by side with the Clayton version, I think you will find that they are about the same. The Spal centrigugal fan used by Clayton (assuming it is still the same) is a tight squeeze in the box, and needs the extra depth compared with the Smiths axial fan.

By the way, be careful undoing the 3 plenum mounting bolts, they can seize. Also don't forget the other casing steady fixing to the firewall.

This job is easier with the gearbox out, or at least the tunnel off.

The better fan gives a very powerful blast at all speeds (as per Dyson handryer!).

Good luck.

Mike

[silverfox4 4]

Thanks MIke, that sounds encouraging.

The transmission is now back in place, but I still have the tunnel off while I sort out this replacement heater, gauge LED's and hopefully hesitant wipers.  How difficult to access those plenum mounting bolts?  I have the dash hanging loose to assess the best approach and so far I think I will call on some help as I have difficulty breathing while contorting myself for any length of time.

Cheers for that,

Alf

[rcreweread 33]

Alf - the plenum bolts are awkward but get -attable - however, because of their length, they go through the captive nut inside the plenum chamber and stick out about 1/4 in what is a fairly hostile environment for metal, hence they get pretty rusty and corroded. 

In my experience, its easy to get lulled into a false hope that they are coming out, but they can often get tighter and tighter the more they are unwound, and then they break or the captive nut breaks loose!! Now you really are in the poo!! Don't ask me how I know this! I was fortunate that I was working on a shell, not a finished car, so could get access more easily to rectify the situation.

Good luck

Cheers   Rich

[silverfox4 4]

I looked and there is no way to access the exposed threads to spray them liberally before attempting to remove, so will seek some assistance before attacking this looming challenge.

Thanks all,

Alf

[silverfox4 4]

Success! Thanks to Mike and Rich, I solicited help and had a go at the mounting bolts and after 1 1/2 hrs the heater was out. It looks a little dirty but easlily cleaned up provided the core is OK. Maybe I wasted money on the replacement, as I expected much worse

Some further questions though;

a) there were no spacers as shown in the parts manual - should I make some for use with the replacement heater? if so what is the depth required?

b) the new heater has two extra outlets - I assume these pertain for application in a TR6 dash vents and not a TR4A even though it too has vents ?? 

Cheers and thanks again,

 

Alf

 

[silverfox4 4]

More challenges to using the Clayton heater in the TR4A.  The plenum opening is a radiused 4 3/16" (106 mm) to accommodate the Heater intake opening which is 4" (100mm), so the gasket fits snuggly.  However the Clayton intake opening is 114 m  at the outside of the flange (111 mm inside flange), so there is no space for a gasket -it would be an odd "butt" fit.

At this point it appears the best solution is to rebuild the original heater and re-install.

I'll put some pics of the original heater condition in another thread

Cheers

Alf

[silverfox4 4]

The condition of the original heater does not look too bad , though it will need a new core as there are clear signs of swelling in the end caps.

The motor spins smoothly and pushes good volume.  I am therefore inclined to refresh this heater instead of using the Clayton, unless someone thinks it is a bad idea.

Thanks and Cheers,

Alf

P.S. can anyone identify the sticker/paper I found in side the box? it was next to the motor

[Rob Salisbury 14]

Hi Alf,

           It was 2 or 3 months ago that I had my heater unit in bits to replace the motor and matrix so I can't quite remember how it all went together but the whole thing was made up of panels etc that were screwed together, so I'm sure you could adapt the old spigot mounting section to fit on the new Clayton unit giving the best of both worlds, but then that's my sideways way of looking at problems!!

Cheers Rob

[mike3md 6]

Hi Alf,

As I made my own new casings I copied the original diameter, so it fitted fine. If you decide to go ahead with the Clayton unit, I would suggest cutting the foam ring to half depth, it should seal fine, and should cope with the slight stretching to fit the lip on the Clayton. The hole in the plenum is radiused.

Personally I would persevere with the Clayton. The larger heat exchanger is part of the benefit.

You are right, the side tube are for the TR5&6, and should be blanked off. 

Incidentally I browsed the Clayton stand at the NEC yesterday, and they examples of the fan and the matrix on show, they may sell as separate parts.

Good luck.

Mike

[stuart 270]

I rebuilt my original 4a heater when I restored the car 26 yrs ago and with a clean matrix and new sealant foams all round it works very well, I believe Claytons do a new matrix which is a little bit uprated on the original so I would go with that.

Stuart.

[silverfox4 4]

Thanks Mike and Stuart. I have probably been unnecessarily driven by the notion of keeping the original fitment configuration.

Based on these comments, I will now try to make the clayton replacement work somehow. Probably the "butt" contact between the heater and plenum will work with some suitable sealing foam weather-strip.

Again many thanks,

Alf

[silverfox4 4]

As an update....

After a 3 hour marathon to get the holes/bolts limed up with0out the spacers falling out and doing ones best not to cross thread, the Clayton heater is now in place using a closed cell foam for the seal.

However there are three issues still make me think this conversion may not have been a good idea relative to rebuilding the original. These may be the result of the Clayton heater being of different dimensions or shape

1. The choke cable is in real distress with so little clearance.  The head piece will have to be bent for the cable to operate smoothly - would this be doable?

2. The plastic lines for the washer fluid pump are also  in agony and the only solution may be to convert to the electric washer system from the TR6 - another PITA.

3. The damper adjustment cable does not appear as positive as the original and I assume the orientation of the lever arm can be easily adjusted with the set screw 

I guess we will only know once it is used in anger. Won't it be a laugh if I never need to use the heater in the future. Ironically I never have in the past, but the signs of leakage on the carpet and a family who are looking forward to many years of TR'ing after I'm gone, were the main drivers.

Thanks,

Alf

 

[Charlie D 20]

Alf,

You asked:

“P.S. can anyone identify the sticker/paper I found in side the box? It was next to the motor.”

Are the very bottom (ripped) 4 letters “WARW”  ?

Could that be “Warwick”. (Or is there another word that has "Warw" in the middle?).

 

I used to live in Warwick (England)

But I see that there is a “Warwick” in Ontario..

Probably a total red herring,

 

Charlie.

[RogerH 401]

Hi Alf,

ref your choke cable.  Not sure if the TR4 and 4A are identical but this is what I had to do to my TR4. See pic below.

Not sure what happened during the rebuild but the standard cable did not like the position relative to the standard heater.

Your's looks bad compared to mine. You may have to consider a different choke cable altogether. There is a thread running presently trying to find cheaper cables.

 

Roger

 

[silverfox4 4]

Charlie,

Sorry but I can't decipher anymore than the image shows. The only thing which seems clear is the width is constant, which led me to think it might be a very old sticker of sorts.

Roger, thanks for that. I will sleep on it for a few days while I focus on the wiper boxes and rack.

Cheers,

Alf