Casar66 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 which is responsible for the problems I have since few months? Since this summer my PI shows a funny behavior: while driving, the engine simply stops unpredictable. after 5 minutes of driving oder after 2 hours. After a while (sometimes 3 minutes, another time after one hour it is possible to start again. That phenomenon pops off 3 times a day or ist not seen for weeks. The tank ist full, half full, nearly empty. The main problem is I cannot provoke it to do proper research, I have changed the ignition cable, the distributor cap, the finger. Now I have installed an ignition pistol that I can quickly check during the driving if maybe the ignition goes off. I have changed to an electrical pickup (pertronix) two years ago, that was my first favorite. But today the inertia switch caught my eyes. Lets suppose the switch ist not good could he cause such a behavior? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi Cas, have a look at the low tension wire in the distributor. It has a terminal on each end that is soldered onto the cable. I had one where the solder had broken away but all looked intact. The plastic sleeve is crimped to the tag so although the solder has separated the tag stays where it is. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Test : Connect the wires to the inertia switch together and insulate them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi Roger, you mean the grounding wire (body to plate)? Peter, the switch works (if I pull/push the knob on top of the switch). But can a simply mechanism like the one of that switch cause such a problem as described? The problem is connecting the wires will not prove anything. As I wrote, sometimes it runs for weeks perfectly. I would like to sort it out theoretically first. Doing this maybe I can exclude parts and then if the problem comes up again I could concentrate only on one, two things before everything is fine again due faith healing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trt74 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi Cas, I've had the same problem. In the end it turned out to be caused by a faulty coil.. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi Casar when the engine stope is the fuel pump still running? if not suspect the inertia switch if the pump is still running it’s not the inertia switch, so probably ignition. i too had a similar issue years ago, traced eventually to a chafed wire in the distributor. good luck hunting the fault down ! steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matttnz Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Roger's idea is a good 1st one I think. The original style inertia switches suffer from poor contacts over time and end up cooking themselves internally, espl w w Bosch pump if I understand these things correctly. Poor contact = higher resistance for a given current/increased heat = more cooking and poorer contacts AND repeat process... Given the ball inside may migrate if the housing is deformed it could cause your issue but I suspect a rogue loose wire somewhere in the ignition system, as described by the others, is more likely. Mine gave out awhile back and I replaced it with a Land Rover unit which are freely available. Taking the inertia switch out of the circuit w a bypass (i.e. join the wires at the base together and insulate) is easy to do and if the problem goes away you've found the issue. Make sure not to crash horribly in the interim whilst testing it, of course, as you'll be subjected to CP style: high-pressure-fuel-on-hot-engine-bits risk. I'm assuming this isn't usually on your priority list. If it doesn't: know you are the proud owner of an original switch that actually still works! Whilst you're at it, running a new feed to the pump and activating via the traditional wiring (plus inertia switch) will take the current load off the system and switch, thereby stopping further current generated heat cooking the switch. That should preserve your original fittings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 well, the pump is still running when the engine get off. But the sound of the fuel pump changes a little (at least that's what I think). So I have checked the electrical connection first. But they were alright. That brought me to the switch. And I am quite sure that temperature of engine, fuel, etc. has nothing to do with it. I happened at any (running-)time, any temperature. Even the coil never get hot. my favorite is the ignition-system, still. I just want to know what symptoms a faulty switch shows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 If the pump is still running then the fault is not the inertia switch if the inertia switch fails then the pump stops, this is the purpose of the switch. the low tension (lt) ignition system consists of : ignition switch, these do fail sometime intermittently lt wiring to coil coil lt wiring to distributor lt wiring inside distributor points and condenser earth wire from points I bet the problem is in this list, i favour a loose or chafed wire, or the condenser ! steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hi Cas and Tin, do you have an electronic ignition (electronic contact braker) like "Powerspark"? Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trt74 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hi Marco, My TR6 has the 123 ignition. This system requires a coil with a primary resistance of at least 1.0 Ohm. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 As I wrote at the beginning I have a pickup (pertronix ignitor) instead of the point. That ist my absolutely favorit problem-causer. But I have to get him "in flagranti". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Hi Tim, sorry, with the 123 I can't help. Hi Cas, I'm at work, can explain what I know from a friend and from my self experience this evening. But others could also know and are invited to answer. Ciao, Marco Edited October 30, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 I'm with Tim, I had exactly the same problem 3 years ago with an old Holden V8. Stopped dead on freeways after running for an hour or so at over 100kmh. Leave it for 10 minutes or so and everything was perfect again. Tried everything , as you do with these intermittent faults, eventually I mounted a new coil in a cooler position and the problem went away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Well, what I know from coils with problems is, that they become too warm, And you can feel it, they are really hot. The cause for that is an interturn (correct vocabular?) or the oil for cooling is gone. Bu then they behave always the same or similar at least. But not running for 5 minutes, than stop. Running for hours then stop. Running for weeks, nothing, then 3 times a day. Whatever the weather is, the temperature, the revs. Have just look for the grounding wire. looks very well. Always flow even if I wiggle or pull. The ohm resistance end-to-end is 0,02 (whatever that means, have no clue). Ah, the coil has a ohm resistance of 3,6. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Hi Cas, I had the same problems from time to time for years, until my Stammtisch mate Robert B. gave an answer to such a question on the german TR-friends forum. Anyway he had to explain me at the Stammtisch... Here it comes in my words. With the common braker contact you can put another one in the distributor nearly "without" any different adjustment (mostly the gap). The distributor finger stays face to face to the 4 (or 6) pick up pins in the moment of the ignition, moves some degrees to the left on full advance. The distributor finger is always "in contact" to the 4 (or 6) pick up pins. For an electrinic braker contact the space in the distributor is very limited, and there is only one way the magnetic ring can be fixed. Finally it is located in a wrong position, this is why the system is not plug and play and has to be new adjusted - by turning the distributor WITH THE CAP ON IT! With the electronic Powerspark braker I had to turm the distributor (and cap, and pick ups) clockwise right. This looks for example like on the photo above, that still works pretty well - until the engine turns on full advance. Then the distributor arm turns left and beginns to loose contact to the pick up pins. This also still works most times but from that issue my Powerspark electronic braker fails from time to time with a total switch off from for a twinkle of an eye, a second, minutes, what ever, when ever, very sad..... What I have been told and what I did: I turned the knurled adjuster outside of the ditributor on full left on full advance, than adjusted the ignition new. This causes that when I turned the distributor clockwise the arm was more left and finally is also more left in a better position to the pick up pins. Believe it or not, that works since some 100 miles without anymore misfire. Ciao, Marco Edited October 30, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 **** in the fuel tank or system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Marco, I got ist, I guess. I used a Powerspark pickup years before I used the Pertronix one. No problems, never. The Petronix since nearly three years. Problems since this Summer. Of course I set the timing with cap mounted on the distributor. How else? What I do not understand is the "movement" of the finger what you describe. Would you please explain this again? Edited October 30, 2019 by Casar66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 And If that is the cause why runs the engine after a while without changing anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hi Cas, from ideling to higher revs the distributor moves the arm from "late" (right) to "advance" (left). I don't why the electronic switches off and works again. I also don't know why my mobile strikes from time to time. Try it, you have nothing to loose. Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Mmh, I have never tried to understand the Distributor in Detail. Apart of the timing. If I follow your advice will it have any influence or changes on the distributors characteristics? Edited October 30, 2019 by Casar66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Your suggestion is very interesting Marco but I can't help thinking it would be consistent in its effect unless there was a lot of free-play in a worn distributor ? Cas's fault sounds to be very irregular and unrelated to time. It does seem very odd though that once stopped, the engine will run again after some pause - which might suggest a temperature problem which affects the ignition unit. I do have experience of a faulty Pertronix unit which did more or less what Cas describes though in my case the failure was a bit more regular. That was definitely a temperature effect and the car would start again after about ten minutes cooling time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) In my job very often I have to deal with this problem: customers tell me about technical problems, reasons for them and what they observe and what they are convinced about. Finally, when the problem is found and solved, lots of this is wrong and has nothing to do with each other. So.....Robert and me also could be wrong, but it works. Edited October 30, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 But sometimes it takes one hour or longer to start again or just few minutes. Or it works without any problems für weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Sounds not like heat problem? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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