rcreweread Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Hi everyone On behalf of a member who is not tech savvy ( am I??!!! ), he has asked if we can help identify the head in the attached photos - it came as spare parts with his TR3 acquisition - it appears to have been professionally refurbished so he was hoping to use it on the engine he is building. However, when he tried to fit a low port exhaust manifold ( which is definitely correct), it doesn't line up properly with the studs, so the question is, what head is this- vanguard? The casting number in the top corner of the head is 305679 and a further number, 511151, is stamped on the top machined edge of the manifold side of the head, Hopefully photos attached will help Cheers Rich Edited October 19, 2019 by rcreweread remove duplicated photo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 TerriAnn Wakeman's site is a good source of information. Looks like a Vanguard head from the images about half way down the page http://www.tr3a.info/FAQ_heads.htm Malcolm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Diddy widdy little 7/16 th stud holes, flat area between studs 2 and 3 all inlet and exhaust holes are in line and round - Vanguard. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Brilliant - 19 minutes to establish a mystery. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Hello Rich, I think that the circular ports tend towards it being a Vanguard. I have a head sitting on the floor of my workshop looking at me every time I go in there. It has circular ports. It came from a Vanguard engine I bought a few years ago, thinking it was the same as a TR. (Only cost £15, so not a problem…) The holes for the cylinder head studs are a smaller diameter to that of the TR, so it would not just “Drop on”. I’m also sure that most people would not recommend it even if it could. However… Many (many, many) years ago I bought a scrap TR3 for parts. I could never really understand why the head (a genuine TR item) seemed to be able to “Float” about a bit when dropped onto the block. Reason was that the actual engine was a Vanguard, and the head was a TR. Maybe that is the case with your friends TR. One give away with the Vanguard block is that the dipstick hole is towards the rear of the car. The TR block had the dipstick at the front. Both cars have the casting with a “Lump” cast in for either dipstick; only the actually drilling of the “Lump” tells you which block it came from. Hope that helps a bit. Charlie. Arrrgh... I type too slow... Mick beat me to it. (But still check the block !!!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Thank you all for a great and knowledgeable response - I will pass all the info on Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roger murray-evans Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 7:55 PM, Charlie D said: Hello Rich, I think that the circular ports tend towards it being a Vanguard. I have a head sitting on the floor of my workshop looking at me every time I go in there. It has circular ports. It came from a Vanguard engine I bought a few years ago, thinking it was the same as a TR. (Only cost £15, so not a problem…) The holes for the cylinder head studs are a smaller diameter to that of the TR, so it would not just “Drop on”. I’m also sure that most people would not recommend it even if it could. However… Many (many, many) years ago I bought a scrap TR3 for parts. I could never really understand why the head (a genuine TR item) seemed to be able to “Float” about a bit when dropped onto the block. Reason was that the actual engine was a Vanguard, and the head was a TR. Maybe that is the case with your friends TR. One give away with the Vanguard block is that the dipstick hole is towards the rear of the car. The TR block had the dipstick at the front. Both cars have the casting with a “Lump” cast in for either dipstick; only the actually drilling of the “Lump” tells you which block it came from. Hope that helps a bit. Charlie. Arrrgh... I type too slow... Mick beat me to it. (But still check the block !!!) In the interests of historical accuracy, SOME Vanguards had the rear mounted dipsticks and SOME have them at the front as per TRs. Roger M-E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Roger, Apologies for my error. I read the fact in: “ Collector's Originality Guide Triumph TR2 TR3 TR4 TR5 TR6 TR7 TR8 By Bill Piggott” So I thought it must be true. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roger murray-evans Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Charlie, You can be and are forgiven! Unfortunately, errors do find their way into the best of publications, usually because the author has accepted a 'known' truth and put it into print. I wouldn't have argued the point either had I not got a Phase 1 Vanguard (Late 1950), still with it's original engine and having the dipstick at the forward position and no rear boss for alternative dipstick position. .I also have a spare Vanguard engine which has the dipstick at the rear but also has the undrilled boss at the front. My attached photos show (1) My Ph1 Vanguard 1950 Front d/stick no rear alternative boss (2) 1958 TR3 Block Front d/stick and alternative rear boss and (3) my spare Vanguard engine (year unresearched) Rear dipstick and alternative front boss. It's a can of worms! Roger M-E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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