Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 the door of my TR6 RHD is damaged (see photos). I guess that the brazed joints are cracked. The right way to fix ist would be to solder it again. With new paint job etc. I am wondering if a smart repair is possible. I am thinking about an epoxy-soaked cfk-patch from the inside and smart paint job from the outside. It would be a minimally invasive repair approach. Stupid idea? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Stupid idea !...so many ways to agree with you. The doors take a great deal of stress with the flexing of the window glass being pressed by the rubber door seals outwards, after 50 years the original material (best quality Coventry steel) has cried enough. I don't think a fibreglass repair on the inside skin will cut the mustard ...do you ? Stuart who repairs many like this for a living will be along shortly, I'd urge you accept his recommendation as being the best repair possible to achieve a further long life for the door. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 I had the same cracks. I ground them out to fresh steel (removed the brazing deposits). Then made a thin cut where the cracks were to allow good penetration en then welded with MIG. Rounded the inside smooth with files so a nice radius was made; avoid sharp contours in the necks. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Same cracks on mine either leave them or as said uncover them completely, grind out the cracks, repair any rust and MIG. I built up a couple of mm inside the top of the window channel as a bit of insurance down the line. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Quote . I built up a couple of mm inside the top of the window channel as a bit of insurance down the line. More or less I want to do the same. Just using a piece of carbonfibre (not glassfibre) inside instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 The carbon fibre repair will not be the same as a weld repair. Cracks will always tend (want) to continue. Also, to create a proper bond of the resin to the steel is an issue, since you cannot properly prepare that inside corner. I understand it seems tempting, but I agree with your last sentence in the first post;) Once prepared, the welding itself is a 10 minute job. Go for it. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 ...but the paint job afterwards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, Casar66 said: ...but the paint job afterwards I'm afraid that's the price you pay for a long lasting repair. Take it as an opportunity to learn to paint small areas which I'm sure will come in handy from time to time and save you money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 With other words, let it as it be and paint it time to time. Because the metall will break again and again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Hi Cas, you can stop the crack in it's tracks (probably) by drilling a 1/8" hole at the end of the crack. You could then fill the hole and locally tidy up the paint. However I would go for the proper repair - local paint strip, remove the rust, prepare the crack for welding, mig weld. You could consider a backing plate spot welded on to support the cracked material. TRying to get carbon fibre to stick to rusty mild steel is a hopeless task Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Ok, got it. But who said, that there is rust? Is this a must when the sheet cracked in that area? I have never seen rust at my car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Hi Cas, to perform a carbon fibre repair you would need to remove the paint. Mild steel is very reactive in air in that it will rust quite quickly. Even with a coating a of carbon resin it may well carry on rusting. In aerospace you would need to apply a stable surface coating to enable it to stay in place for any reasonable time. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Mmh, so all or nothing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Yes, I also think all or nothing ore the only two good choices. If you choose "all", as someone mentioned above, the brazing will interfere with proper mig welding. All of the brass has to be removed from the joints--and that might be the most difficult part of the job. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 What is the best way to remove the brass? It seems to me more and more that a real proper repair is not an easy job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I removed most with a thick heavy wirebrush on my angle grinder, until all yellow metal disappeared. The remainder with file and thin cutting disk. Important to remove it all, and also to clean the inside otherwise the quality of the weld is affected. 2 hrs of prepping, 10 mins of welding. I thought (assumed) you were in the mid of a restoration, but if this is a running car, I would not do anything. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Yes, it is a running car in a very nice condition. Just few things to do. Perhaps I will sell it next year and if so , I want to sell a good car. And additionally, I do not like to have a car with cracks that could increase with time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Hi Cas, if the brass is an issue then why no consider brazing a support plate on the inside. and fill the crack with braze then flatten. The crack can still be stopped with a 1/8" hole. Obviously the surrounding paint will be damaged but is not impossible to rectify. There are too many choices do the one that works for you. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Thanks Roger, fortunatelly now the days become shorter and shorter, lot of time to think about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Unfortunately that area of the door is always stressed as the window acts as a lever when wound up every time you close the door and constantly pushes against the top of the skin on each end hence the crack as there isnt much strength at that point. I tend to go for grinding the crack out fully and they weld up allowing the weld to fully penetrate so there is a bit more metal strength in that area, especially athe front end where the "Bridge" area from the skin to the inner part of the frame needs building up as this is the weakest point and where the cracks start. Then I always lead over that area to allow some flex (lead is softer than steel) and then paint, doing it this way will give a lot more longevity to your repair than weld alone. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 44 minutes ago, stuart said: Unfortunately that area of the door is always stressed as the window acts as a lever when wound up every time you close the door and constantly pushes against the top of the skin on each end hence the crack as there isnt much strength at that point. I tend to go for grinding the crack out fully and they weld up allowing the weld to fully penetrate so there is a bit more metal strength in that area, especially athe front end where the "Bridge" area from the skin to the inner part of the frame needs building up as this is the weakest point and where the cracks start. Then I always lead over that area to allow some flex (lead is softer than steel) and then paint, doing it this way will give a lot more longevity to your repair than weld alone. Stuart. Stuart repairs these and renovates them for a living, if that's what he does it's what I'll be doing on mine. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 that looks really nice. But it means also a full restoration job on the door. And I have to found one here in Germany who is experienced in doing that on a TR. I t is not me wo can do this. Again, I would prefer an easier way. Or let it be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Have just talked to a 3M engineer and he liked my idea of a smart repair. He recommended me a product out of their range. Yes, that is a kind of epoxy but one which is suited for painted metal or plastic etc. even on oily or contaminated grounds. He was very keen that it will work. So I think I will try it. If the result ist not good I have just wasted my time and a little money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 I tried an epoxy to repair a similar crack. Total waste of time because the epoxy only has the thin edge of the crack to adhere to. Only way that an epoxy might work is to glue a patch on the inside. Best approach is to MIG as Stuart describes above. Any decent car body workshop would be able to repair it. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Quote Only way that an epoxy might work is to glue a patch on the inside exactly this is my plan. Quote epoxy only has the thin edge of the crack to adhere to the area to adhere is not only the crack, ist is also the area around the crack. The 3M guy explained me, that their product is able to build up a structure, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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