Dave McDonald Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Still dismantling the car for the restoration. Took the front wings off today - with much difficulty. Which masochist or sadist designed the fixings for those? I've only ever dismantled a Californian TR6 before. That was a doddle. The fixings at the front end of the TR5 wings around the front valance area were a nightmare. Totally corroded screws. Captive nuts that weren't captive for long, 2 No cage nuts at bottom of both sides that were seized up and nuts spun in the cage, etc. Eventually removed with a combination of hacksaw, angle grinder and welding nuts onto broken screws to remove and leaving myself future captive nut repairs to do. The joys of TR restoration!! To cap it all, when the wings were finally off it became clear that the front valance was only bolted/screwed into place. Not welded at all. The top valance was connected to the bottom valance with 6 or 7 pop rivets. They were then fixed onto the car with the bumper irons, the top stabilising tubes back to the inner wheel arches and 3 screws at each side through the "filler" panels fixed to the inner wing. The filler panels were also loose, just connected by these screws. That can't be right can it? Surely the filler panels should be welded in place and the valance should be welded to those panels? If that's right I'll show my A--e in Burtons' window!! Any comments gratefully received - not about the window display please, only the car. Dave McD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 The front panel top and bottom should be spot welded together, If by filler plates you mean the ones at the front end of the wings then they should be spot welded to the wings not the front panel. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Dave, the captive whatsits (nuts and cages) are available from Moss, cheap and easy to fit with a spot welder. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, Rob Salisbury said: Dave, the captive whatsits (nuts and cages) are available from Moss, cheap and easy to fit with a spot welder. Cheers, Rob At some point a PO did away with the captive nuts on my car and welded the bottom of the front wings to the front panel made removal of the wings a 'challenge' to say the least Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave McDonald Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, stuart said: The front panel top and bottom should be spot welded together, If by filler plates you mean the ones at the front end of the wings then they should be spot welded to the wings not the front panel. Stuart. Stuart, Thanks. I assumed that would be the case. Weld the top and bottom valance panels together and then weld that assembly in between the two inner wings. The filler plates are item 70 on attached Moss link and, as you say, the only logical pace that I thought they should go was to weld them to the wings. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/body-chassis/body-panels/front-body-door-panels-tr5-tr250-1967-68.html The car was restored 25 years ago for the PO by a bloke in Bradford who, I subsequently found out, specialised in restoring Jowett Javelins in the town of their original manufacture, a fairly niche market I would assume. I can only assume that he was responsible for this state of affairs. 1 hour ago, Rob Salisbury said: Dave, the captive whatsits (nuts and cages) are available from Moss, cheap and easy to fit with a spot welder. Cheers, Rob Rob, Yes, I've seen the cage nut assemblies in the Moss catalogue. The problem with those was that the previous restorer had used very long set screws with an excessive penetration through the cage nuts which had corroded in the wheel arch. Wire brushing to clean them up in that location is a challenge. While I managed to get them starting to move, eventually by trying to turn the heavily corroded screw through the cage nut it started to seize up, the nut rotated inside the cage by bending the cage sides out. Result, no resistance and nut rotating with screw. I think I'll weld captive nuts on instead to hopefully reduce the problem for any future restorer, oh and use the absolute minimum length set screws. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Hi Dave, the long screws were a bit silly but those captive nut and screws (as fitted by the factory) had seized solid by 1970 on my '65 TR4A!! .... every nut and bolt I fit on my car has copious quantities of Copperslip 'cause I know that at some time or another I'm going to be undoing it again!! I find cage nuts give a bit more fitting wriggle room when putting the car back together again. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 You do really need to fit the captive nuts/cages and use the right short pointy set screws as its a fiddle anyway to get those bolts in and that way you can get them in without being directly in line, as stated use plenty of copperslip and then lots of waxoyl and you wont have any future dismantling problems, when I stripped the wings and door off mine after 25yrs to repair the accident damage they all came out no bother at all. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 +1 Stuart. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Front wing infill panels fit like this. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave McDonald Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Point taken about extra manoeuvrability of fixings using cage nuts. Thanks for tip about copper slip, etc. Stuart, Thanks for photo of wing with filler plate attached. That's how I thought it should fit. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 Do be aware Dave that the repro filler plates are the wrong shape and dont fit very well. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 36 minutes ago, stuart said: Do be aware Dave that the repro filler plates are the wrong shape and dont fit very well. Stuart. +1 .... Offside is OK'ish, but the nearside is nowhere near!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave McDonald Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 11 hours ago, stuart said: Do be aware Dave that the repro filler plates are the wrong shape and dont fit very well. Stuart. 11 hours ago, Rob Salisbury said: +1 .... Offside is OK'ish, but the nearside is nowhere near!! Cheers Rob Stuart, Rob, Thanks for the heads up on fit of filler plates. I know mine were loose when I removed them but I did think they weren't the best fit. I'll take the necessary care in fixing mine to try to achieve a reasonable end result. Dave McD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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