Ocheye Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 I have mx5 seats with removable headrests fitted to my TR4. I suffer from the perennial problem of the seat belt slipping off my shoulder. Short of wearing a jacket with epaulettes I am at a loss as to a satisfactory solution. I have seen these advertised which may help but I wonder if they may actually be dangerous in an accident (plastic ones that break on impact may be better!). https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-MX5-Seat-Belt-Guides-Polished-Aluminium/293231407585?hash=item4445f431e1:g:jNwAAOSw4RNda~VC I'd appreciate thoughts and suggestions. I also have a pair of good TR4A seats that I'm currently re-stuffing though everyone tells me that I will find them unsatisfactory compared to the MX5 ones. At the moment I have 3 point static seat belts but may upgrade to inertia reel ones if I can solve the above problem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 I have MX5 seats from a 1996 Limited Edition in my TR4a. I fitted Securon 3 point retractable belts. I also have fitted a roll bar, so I did some Google searches and found a company that made metal seat belt guides (sorry I’ve forgotten that suppliers name). I bolted these guides to the roll bar, then rethreaded the Securon belts through those guides. This way the belts have a very strong attachment point right behind my shoulder. I then did an eBay search and found GM factory plastic seat belt guides from a 2004 Saturn. Though they’re plastic, they do have a bit of give to them so they won’t easily break. They are also slotted to allow the belt to be inserted. I had to redrill these guides to fit the MX5 seat headrest posts, but they fit very well. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Ocheye I have been using the seat belt guides shown in your photo for the last year or so with no issues, I got them from the MG Owners club George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) Hi, at an earlier post in 2018 I showed this. Friend of mine makes them. I can see no danger for the case of an accident, the belt gies throuht without giving any force on them. Ciao, Marco Edited September 21, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Is there no rattling noises from that metal bar on the two metal risers for the headrests? Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) No..... Edited September 21, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boogie Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 13 hours ago, Z320 said: Hi, at an earlier post in 2018 I showed this. Friend of mine makes them. I can see no danger for the case of an accident, the belt gies throuht without giving any force on them. Ciao, Marco Hi Marco, Does your friend sell these? I need a set of these to sort my seatbelts. Thanks, Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 I have to ask him, he is fare in his 80-ies. With some luck I will see hin at Thursday at our Stammtisch. But if he will do his price will be about 150 Euro for the pair, plus shipping + perhaps 20% tax if GB is out of the EU. If this is OK for you I will ask hin. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boogie Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Z320 said: his price will be about 150 Euro for the pair, plus shipping + perhaps 20% tax That is a lot more than I wanted to pay, but thanks Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) That's OK, you could make yourself a variation like I did to get to the correct lenght of the second pair (shorter). I made it of plastic (Pe-X) - aluminium - plastic (Pe-X) tube 16 mm, house installation tube for water from the DIY market. That costs you a ultimative small amount of money - but you have to do it yourself. And you always have to take care of the beld not to slip from the bar. Have much success! Marco Edited September 22, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy303 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Marco: I like your seats. Where did you find them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) Hi Andy, they are from the 1999 Mazda MX-5, 10th anniversary edition, black with blue Alcantara, they have been upholstered with black leather and white piping by MA-carstyle, Germany https://shop.ma-carstyle.de/Startseite https://shop.ma-carstyle.de/Mazda-MX-5-NB-Leather-Seats I'm very pleased with the quality, problem may be the cost for shipping from / to the UK Ask them for conditions Edited September 23, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 I have the same seats, also done by MA-Carstyle, recommended for EU TR-ers. I wonder what happens in case of a serious accident: the forces on the seat belt and it’s mounting points and supporting point on the head rest is very high. If the belt runs like in the set-up Marco (and many others) has, there will be a high load (force) on the seat and belt- guide at the head rest. Does the original MX 5 set-up have a similar routing (in other words: is this a prooven and tested seat belt routing, where the rear mounting is much lower than the head rest? Thanks, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 Some lovely seats shown here, I would just caution drivers that it's preferred that seat belt angles do not travel downwards at acute angles (45 deg) from shoulder height. (competition sources). As you can see in the photos with occupant in place shown, the drivers shoulder height is above the seat and a high speed front end accident (40mph onwards) will throw drivers against the seat belt causing massive downward compression against the shoulder by the belt (instantaneous tons of force applied) causing damage to the occupants shoulder which in turn will give excess slack in the belt allowing bodily frontal movement and possible impact against windscreen/dashboard etc which may be projecting backwards in the impact. Seat belts routing from the rear should be from as high a point as possible ( not always easy in a convertible) to remove downward compression on the occupants shoulders and torso. Many specialist roll cages will have a cross bar fixed at shoulder height for seat belt routing over allowing for lower seat belt attachments (base of B post or side of rear wheelarch area) whilst protecting the occupants shoulders from these forces. Sorry for being a wet blanket (again). Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Mickey, I mounted the seat belt bracket on my role bar to help alleviate the issue you described. It also provides a strong anchor point. I guess the idea is to emulate the B pillar attachment point on modern cars. I thought about mounting it higher on the bar, but then the belt would foul on the headrest. The plastic guide on the headrest is just there to keep the belt easy to reach. Jim Edited September 24, 2019 by Tr4aJim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: Some lovely seats shown here, I would just caution drivers that it's preferred that seat belt angles do not travel downwards at acute angles (45 deg) from shoulder height. (competition sources). As you can see in the photos with occupant in place shown, the drivers shoulder height is above the seat and a high speed front end accident (40mph onwards) will throw drivers against the seat belt causing massive downward compression against the shoulder by the belt (instantaneous tons of force applied) causing damage to the occupants shoulder which in turn will give excess slack in the belt allowing bodily frontal movement and possible impact against windscreen/dashboard etc which may be projecting backwards in the impact. Seat belts routing from the rear should be from as high a point as possible ( not always easy in a convertible) to remove downward compression on the occupants shoulders and torso. Many specialist roll cages will have a cross bar fixed at shoulder height for seat belt routing over allowing for lower seat belt attachments (base of B post or side of rear wheelarch area) whilst protecting the occupants shoulders from these forces. Sorry for being a wet blanket (again). Mick Richards Thanks Mick, that was my thought too, now confirmed. I think it is best to use the original seat belt fixing point on the wheel arch for a 3-point belt or use a roll cage for a belt with 2 shoulder straps so it can be mounted in the center line behind each seat. The roll cage may also deflect if not properly fixed by this impact load, so that is another reason to make sure it is properly fitted with a thick reinforcing plate at the bottom of the body. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Hi Mick, I understand your critics, perhaps they are reasonable – so I see no “wet blanket”. Let me tell you why I am anyway very pleased with them and what I else did. 1. If you read the newspaper with attention you will perhaps realize still lots of people die because they are not buckled up and some die because they are “leaving” the car through the windows. So the most urgent think for me and my wife is to be buckled up every time. And in the case of an accident keep sitting on the seats and not to be thrown out of the car. For that the guide is VERY convenient! I can buckle up with one hand in 2 seconds, even when I'm alreday driving. 2. I checked how the belt goes throught the guides on my seat and my wife’s seat: straight way up, nearly not touching them inside and bending them, also not in the case when we “played accident”. So to be pushed forward I can see no problem, we move away from the giudes, also not backwards because they will also move back with the seats. 3. I realize the belts in most TRs are fitted (in my opionion) wrong: the lock much too long and in a flat line. Ours are very short, fitted straight down to the tunnel, not to slip through under the belts, not to brake our pelvic and keep sitting in the seat in the case of an accident. Also the end of the belt goes not flat behind to the B-post but straight down to the floor. See the old and new lock on the next photo with the old seats. 4. I always drive very defensive, always with light on, better overrun onother slowly car less than one more. So did and do what I can do on this 50 year old car, everything else about safety in such a car is an illusion. If I ever have fear about a serious accident I first will sell all my motorbikes, than never ski again, than sell the TR. My wife agrees with me. Ciao, Marco Edited September 25, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 On 9/22/2019 at 7:28 PM, Z320 said: I have to ask him, he is fare in his 80-ies. With some luck I will see hin at Thursday at our Stammtisch. But if he will do his price will be about 150 Euro for the pair, plus shipping + perhaps 20% tax if GB is out of the EU. If this is OK for you I will ask hin. Ciao, Marco Thanks for this information Marco but they are more than I would wish to spend as I may decide to revert to my TR4A seats if they are really comfortable (when they have been re-stuffed). They are a great solution though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I see some mx5 seats have the seatbelt catches (female) attached to the seats. Is this likely to be unsafe in a TR? Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Ocheye said: I see some mx5 seats have the seatbelt catches (female) attached to the seats. Is this likely to be unsafe in a TR? Andy Dont even think about it Andy In an MX5 the seats are mounted to (very) strong points in the cars monocoque. Most TRs rely on 6off 1/4UNF bolts through a bit of tin floor. If you rely on the MX5 seat mounted anchors you are likely to exit the car through the screen still wearing the seat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Drewmotty said: Dont even think about it Andy In an MX5 the seats are mounted to (very) strong points in the cars monocoque. Most TRs rely on 6off 1/4UNF bolts through a bit of tin floor. If you rely on the MX5 seat mounted anchors you are likely to exit the car through the screen still wearing the seat Ha ha. I thought that might be the answer. Thanks for confirming my fears Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 Absolutely apart from this post the german owner of pair #2 ordered another pair for a friend. My fellow Siegfried, far in his 80-ies, will make this as the last one ever - we will see Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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